Celebrating the anniversary of the first dollar coin ever struck by the U.S. federal government, the United States Mint will release the 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal today at noon ET.
The medal is a modern reproduction of Robert Scot’s 1794 Flowing Hair dollar, first issued on October 15, 1794. Composed of 1 troy ounce of 99.9% pure silver, it’s priced at $104 with a limited mintage of 75,000 pieces.
"Commemorate a landmark in American history with the return of the 1794 flowing hair design," the U.S. Mint stated in a promotional email. "Struck in 99.9% fine silver, the 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal replicates the original 1794 obverse and reverse designs from the first dollar coin struck by the U.S. Mint. Showcasing intricate detailing, this medal celebrates the triumphant return of this 230-year-old legacy."
Further celebrating the design’s history, 1,794 of the medals will include a special "230" privy mark. Of these, 230 will come with a certificate of authenticity signed by U.S. Mint Director Ventris C. Gibson.
Scot’s Flowing Hair dollar was only minted in 1794 and 1795 before being replaced by the Draped Bust dollar. In 1794, just 1,758 were struck. Due to its limited production and the passage of time, fewer than 150 are thought to remain today. In 2013, one of these rare dollars sold for over $10 million, setting a record for the highest price ever paid for a single coin at that time.
Flowing Hair Silver Medal Designs
Robert Scot served as the chief engraver of the United States Mint from 1793 until his death in 1823. The obverse (heads side) of the medal features a recreation of Scot’s historic Flowing Hair design, with a portrait of Liberty facing right, surrounded by 15 stars representing the states that had ratified the Constitution by 1794. "LIBERTY" appears above, as it did on the original dollar coin, now accompanied by a "2024" date inscription.
The reverse (tails side) continues to honor the original 1794 design, depicting a laurel wreath encircling an eagle with spread wings at the center, an early precursor to the American heraldic eagle. The inscription reads "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA."
Medal Specifications
| Denomination: | N/A |
|---|---|
| Finish: | Uncirculated |
| Composition: | 99.9% silver |
| Weight: | 1.000 troy ounce |
| Diameter: | 1.598 inches (40.60 mm) |
| Edge: | Plain |
| Mint and Mint Mark: | Philadelphia – none |
| Privy Mark: | "230" on 1,794 of the medals |
Ordering
The 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal can be ordered directly from the United States Mint starting at noon ET by visiting the Mint’s online store page for Silver Medals.
The U.S. Mint has set an initial household order limit of one medal.
Additionally, a 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High Relief Gold Coin is scheduled for release on November 14. Struck from 24-karat gold at the West Point Mint, this coin will have a limited mintage of just 17,500.
My favorite part is that they left the date where it was originally and didn’t center it.
.
Looking at my Red Book, they did. Liberty is looking up slightly. If you center the date and liberty, you see it.
Antonio,
I hereby give you the numismatic moniker of “Eagle Eye”. You got it!
My humble advice to you Kaiser,
Make an exception to your Silver Medal rule, just this once..
Buy one today!
You never know?
Rick,
I have the distinct feeling I am going to have to disregard my rule just this once, and I want to thank you sincerely for having helped me make up my mind.
Rick,
I wonder if the aftermarket price of one of these Medals with a Privy Mark and the Signed COA will be higher than that for the “paired” Gold Coin?
Yes initially, especially when considering the Mint OGP price for the gold…
Will it last?
FOMO is powerful.
But so is that 1794 Privy Mintage, very powerful!
Rick,
It’s clear to me that I just can’t shed my coin versus medal preference. Besides, if that silver medal had been a silver coin, the aftermarket price might possibly have been even higher, maybe by quite a lot at that. Alas, we’ll never know.
Let’s see how many of us receive a coin with the Privy Mark, also the Signed COA. It’ll be interesting to know.
Just got my notification will be here in 2 days can’t wait
Antonio,
Considering the odds it likely won’t be all that many. What I’m wondering is how anyone who gets a “plain” medal will feel about it and what they plan on doing with it in the long term.
I’m fine with a plain one myself. I wasn’t planning on receiving one with a privy mark or signed COA. I may have it graded to up the value of the medal. I should have my 1995 W ASE and a Morgan CC shaker I have regraded, maybe by NGC this time, as they’re more liberal with their grading. Anything to raise the value of what I have. I’d like to congratulate anyone in our group who receives a privy mark and/or Signed COA. One in a 1,793 and the other number chance.
Oops, I meant 1,794. Must have been thinking of half and one cents.
Antonio,
Just a minor point. There won’t be any “and/or” regarding the FH Medal Privy Mark and Signed COA since no COAs will come with any Medal that doesn’t have the Privy Mark.
Thanks for the correction. I realized this after I reread the article. Faux pas on my part. It’s a nice medal. I’m content. I guess inflation explains the price. With silver at $33.92 an ounce, I suppose the markup is justified. Similar coins and medals from European mints cost a lost more in postage to receive.
Antonio,
Entirely my pleasure, and you’re most welcome. I have the feeling you are more laid back than I am when it comes to being insistent about how important it is for things to be exactly as you prefer to envision them. This hardheadedness ends up costing me repeatedly since if any given situation doesn’t meet my expectations in their entirety I would be inclined to abandon it altogether rather than settle for a compromise outcome and be able to view that as a sufficiently adequate solution.
If only for Aesthetics, the Flowing Hair silver medal is quite attractive. As I continue to look at it, I don’t regret purchasing one. I’m pleasantly surprised. I know it’s pricey, but if the prices listed hold, it may end up being worth having in the long run. That’s what I thought when I went to purchase it, 51 minutes after it was first made available. I was also surprised how quickly I received it, four days after I made my order. Being a collector, I wasn’t in the way to purchase five more. One of each is enough for… Read more »
Antonio, It’s great to hear how well your FH Medal purchase has worked out for you; I certainly don’t detect even the slightest whiff of buyer’s remorse in anything you’ve said! To be honest, in retrospect I perhaps have a touch of “not-buyer’s” remorse, but that ship has sailed so I will just have to tuck that away with all my other coin purchasing and/or non-purchasing decisions of days gone by. By the way, whether or not the higher value holds for your FH Medal down the road is I believe of less importance than the joy brought to you… Read more »
Not true there all coming with coa
Brandon Gant,
Good catch! I meant to say “No SIGNED COAs” but left out the key word. Thanks for noticing that so I could go back and correct it!
Meant to say “no signed COAs” will come with any Medal that doesn’t have a Privy Mark.
They’re signed, just not with an original signature. 😀
Antonio,
If those COAs are signed by a machine the autograph should be worthless.
My Coin Was Plain. This is wrong. Look at the privy prices already. The singular collector is screwed again.
Jim,
Welcome to the club. Screwed by the Mint once, twice and always.
Still no one here received a medal with a privy mark. :-[
Pinehurst is offering $2000 for a medal with the Privy alone.
Bob,
I’ve had my eye on both Pinehurst and the Bronx Buying Club (or whatever moniker it goes by now) for some years. They are both expert at paying the lowest possible amount for privately procured Mint items after which these two resellers put them on the market for up to many multiples of their own purchase price.
Do they give a 1099?
John Q. Coinage,
Before it has a chance to get to that point, Deep Six them.
I seen on Reddit someone got the signed coa and I believe there saying the value is around 10k
Brandon Gant,
That is true, such a crazy figure may well be the ASKING price, but it remains to be seen if anyone will actually end up PAYING that much. By the way, some asking prices are now up to $25,000 for the lower-numbered signed COA’s; in my opinion this has gotten more than slightly out of hand. But hey, if this is how much some people want to spend on $35 of silver then that is their business! 🙂
It’s the signature 😀 230 is a rarity I suppose.
Antonio,
It’s not a coin, it’s not the medal, it’s not the Privy Mark, it’s a signed COA. How did it come to this? Too bad none of them were autographed by Mickey Mantle!
How about the signed labels on slabbed coins?
I caved and got 1 too… ya never know…. damn mint tactics!
Domenic Vaiasicca and Rick, After all the Sturm und Drang was said and done today, upon reflection I am convinced that if I hadn’t initially been booted from the virtual waiting room just before noon and had trouble getting back in I likely might not have had nearly enough time to think about it and by doing so end up going back to my original position. Essentially, the fomo of the moment didn’t have nearly enough of the necessary clout for it to be able to vanquish either my longstanding lack of interest in collecting medals or the additional blocking… Read more »
A balanced example of strength, smarts, and principle is on your side, so good job!
Rick,
I couldn’t imagine receiving a better expression of understanding and support than that, my friend. You clearly demonstrate a deep awareness of your own sensibilities and a keen sense of deciphering the motivations of others.
Domenic Vaiasicca,
The US Mint is experienced beyond belief in the art of convincing.
Rick,
I was just thinking how much has transpired regarding this Medal since you wrote what turned out to be some very forward-looking and really on-point words!
I called the US mint on Monday and asked the person who is going to get the 1794 special 230 mark medals she told me the first 1794 people who order them will get them.I called back a few hours later and asked another person who will get the 1794 special mark coins she said they do not know which coins have them and which ones do not they pull them off the shelf and it is unknown which ones have them.There are people who have them listed on E bay already and the bids are over $5.000 so what… Read more »
i called and was informed it would be random too…like wonka’s golden ticket.
jeremy,
Are we sure the fix wasn’t in all along regarding who was getting the Golden Ticket?
Then again, jeremy, do you think the Mint would actually fess up to anything else?
Random to the preferred dealers. Guess who are the only people selling them?
Antonio,
In that regard it could simply be that the dealers are the only ones who can pay the big prices the flippers are charging on the secondary market.
Only one per household…
And 50 friends, family, colleagues, employees, pawns, etc have their own household.
It happens every time there’s a hot release.
Rick and Mike Petraitis,
Not to mention the organized Buying Clubs that have thousands of adherents.
$5,300 for a MS-70 advanced release flowing hair with the privey. Advanced release. What is the definition of that in this situation?
East Coast Guru,
For a $104 Mint item that is both unadulterated greed and sheer insanity.
By the way, the hammer of fate just dropped on me; I got bounced out of the Waiting Room with no apparent way to get back in.
That sucks Kaiser. Got mine w/no problems. I hope you can hop back in and get one.
Keep trying. Or reboot your computer. This medal won’t sellout today. Plenty of time. It will sellout tomorrow when the one per person limit is lifted. I still don’t get how dealers get an advanced release privey. However, they will only sell 4 of these priveys. Regular medals are PCGS $122 ms-69 and $200 for ms-70 regular medal.
You can order “advanced release” labels from the TPG’s if you are an authorized bulk submitter to said TPG’s(100+ coin submission)..
As far as getting some privies, that’s the numbers game/chance that they play with the use of their pawns that order for them, not to mention the lifting of the household limit(as you mentioned)increasing their chances for the privy …
That’s my take anyway.
ECG – “However, they will only sell 4 of these priveys” – can you add some color around that comment please… Like you, I’ve been at this for a while and have studied these releases closely over the years, it’s my understanding that dealers are able to buy undisclosed lots in advance prior to release day, so be it fine, though for items with a HHL of 1, and a one-off ultra low Mintage of 1794 of a privy, I think the USM really needs to be crystal clear transparent on the distribution of the ‘one-offs’ Welcome any other insight… Read more »
KCSO, I played with the ordering of the MS-70 with privey for $5k and when I tried to order 5 of these medals, it would only let me order 4. I assume they don’t want over extend themselves by taking on more orders than they think they will get from all their ordering mules. Curious what they will charge for a MS-69 with privey.
I agree
I contacted the mint and asked them about the advance release coins, and if that happened the 1794 coins with the privy marks were already gone to the dealers: here is their reply : Dear Tony Stubblefield, This letter is in response to your recent correspondence to the United States Mint. Unfortunately, we are unable to speak on products advertised on other websites other than the United States Mint. However, we can assure you that the 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal was released on 10/15/2024 for purchase to our customers. This medal was not able to be purchased prior… Read more »
So these sellers are selling Advance Release coins at a higher ++ price for coin received the same day as all the rest, if they received them early the someone is lying.
Ah, correction, not coin but rather silver medal. No value is imprinted on the medal and it is not sanctioned by the U.S. Congress except as far as this item is a commemorative medal, not of legal tender. There are silver medal collectors who will buy it, hopefully for more than $104, +s&h.
Antonio,
I can use my imagination to speculate regarding the reason(s) the Mint has free range with issuing Gold Coins and no leeway whatsoever when it comes to the much more affordable Silver Coins. That being said, I still think it’s not only unfair to the coin collecting community but a hell of a way to run a railroad besides.
East Coast Guru,
Hint. Dealers can get whatever they want. Just ask Magic Mike!
I just logged back in at 12:44pmET and it looks like they’re still available. Fingers crossed Kaiser you can get one.
Kaiser, You can also try a different browser. It doesn’t seem like there is any wait time any more. Doesn’t appear to be a sellout as of 12:25 PM.
VinnieC, ChrisTerp and East Coast Guru,
While in the final analysis I decided to opt out of contention for what was essentially not so much a chance to purchase one of 75,000 silver medals but far more realistically and authentically a contest involving the winning of one of 1794 privy-marked medals combined with the even bigger overall prize of one of 230 Mint Director-signed COAs to go with some of those, I would nevertheless like to thank you for all the helpful hints and good wishes!
I’ll add mine to my silver hoard. I have a gold one as well but I ceased buying gold some years ago. Only time will tell if the decisions we made are the right ones or a missed opportunity.
Ha ha ha – that will be more expensive than the gold coin version 😮
I was told by the mint that there was not a Advance Release, and they were released yesterday only, someone is lying, if Advance release did happen I have a felling most of the pricey marked coins are gone.
The Mint has sketchy credibility these days, IMO
John Q. Coinage,
That is certainly the case which is exactly why almost everything the Mint does is viewed with some degree of suspicion.
Tony Stubblefield,
Not all Mint releases are eligible to be sold to Bulk Purchasers. Since these are the only buyers whose coins or medals can end up as “Advance Releases” it is possible the Mint is telling the truth.
My delivery was quick. I have mine and am happy with it. No privy mark for me. Since I wasn’t expecting one, I’m not disappointed. I would be overjoyed if one of us does receive one with a privy mark. Congratulations are in order.
Like I said above, Antonio, I really admire your accepting spirit; it must be very calming to have that in you. My MO is to operate like a constantly coiled spring, an emotional state which clearly doesn’t allow for a fraction as much of a sense of relaxation or peace.
Tony Stubblefield,
Wouldn’t it be even more surprising if you could be sure everyone involved in this “converting $104 into $25,000 or more in one easy move scenario” was in fact telling the absolute truth about everything?
East Coast Guru,
And here we were given to believe (by the Mint itself) that there weren’t any advance releases of this Medal! What gives?
hoping to get 1 of the 230 signed certs!
Secured mine at 12:02pm today. Winner, winner, chicken dinner 😉
Me too at 15sec. Hope for the 230 privy.
Yes Victor! I will be surprised to get the 230 privy – maybe get a heart attack. If I get one, I’ll play the lottery that night b/c I must have the best luck that day.
ChrisTerp, Victor and jeremy,
Here’s hoping you all get the Medal with Privy and Signed COA; best of luck!
12:22 pm confirmation email from US Mint on purchase 🙂
I got mine at 12:23.
Federico H B and ChrisTerp,
You guys had me thinking that we were about to get purchase reports by the minute!
My order went through at 9:02AM PST
Received E-mail conformation at 9:21AM PST
Still available at 10:15AM PST
https://catalog.usmint.gov/230th-anniversary-flowing-hair-silver-medal-24YH.html
A 2.39% chance of a Silver Privy Mark.
And a 0.31% chance of scoring a signed COA to go with 230 of those. That being said, good luck to everyone vying for one or both of these extraordinary value-multipliers! Remember, even Magic Mike “Sold Out – Limited Edition” Mezack can’t possibly corner the market this time.
Maybe Magic Mike will pull one out of his hat. Or like Bullwinkle tell us, “Wrong hat.”
Antonio,
Magic Mike might pull one out but it won’t be from his hat.
24 hours later, “Still Available.”
“Remind Me” status @ 9:22 AM PT 10/16/2024
Quick Sell Out?
Currently Unavailable
US Mint E-mail: “Your Order Has Shipped.” 5:32PM PT 10/16/2024
Pinehurst is buying.
E 1,
Pinehurst is always buying…at about ten cents on the dollar.
I received coins from the Mint and never received the email you did. Go figure.
USPS Tracking Notice: Expect Delivery on Monday 10/22.
Ebay: Numerous listings in OGP, no privy, in-hand, ready to ship – average price $229.
Ebay: In OGP. in-hand, with Privy Mark, $4,800. 10/18/2024
Ebay: Auction. 10/16/2024 OGP w/Privy Mark. Hammered at
$3,350.
E 1,
Perhaps getting hammered prior resulted in said hammer price.
NUTS
E 1,
Insanity isn’t always doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Sometimes it’s doing it once.
E 1,
$229 for a $104 item which as a Medal is overpriced to begin with.
Ebay: 2024 FH in OGP with Cert number 19: BIN or BO. $22,500. A 20,425% ROI.
Mine looks just like that! Without the privy mark and signature. 😀
Ebay: 2024 FH in OGP with Privy and Cert number 104: BIN or BO. $19,999.
Ebay: Sold. Privy. No Auto. $4,500.
I made $125 just like that. We’ll see if the price holds, goes up or down.
Received mine today. No privy mark here. I’m waiting to read if anyone of us received one with the privy mark.
The bulk of the FHS orders should arrive between Monday 10/21/24 and Friday 10/25/24. By Friday evening we should have the full picture of the distribution. Certs 19 and 104 have already been released. Certs 1 thru 10 will command the highest premiums of them all. I am waiting for TCV to make their release soon. They will most likely set the market price for all of the FHS options.
Cert #10 was/is listed on eBay (with photo) for….
Drum roll please…….
$24,999..,
Blaaahhhhaaaahhhhaaaaaaaaaa, good luck with that, no hurt in dreaming!
Certs 10, 19, & 104 are accounted for.
MEZAK industrial has the remaining Certification <99. Just life kids, Ventris closet cabinet
Welcome, one and all fellow flippers, dealers and re-sellers, to the First Annual Medal, Privy and Signed COA Giveaway! The Honorable Ms. Ventris will now read the list of winners, starting with Signed COA #230 and working up to the Grand Prize at Signed COA #1!
Really. A sealed box of 50.
$18,000.
I received my FHS coin today. No privy or cert. But, the coin is a beauty. A very nice looking design for sure. Even my wife liked it and that is usually not the case. Speaking of the case, a nice leather wrapped clam shell – very classy and solid. Also, arrived in a bubble mailer.
Well, that’s it. Done for the year.
Peace out.
E1
Never forget the one with the real flowing hair.
Later
E1,
Flowing hair is good hair.
I think you’re on to something bud….
And October 16 after 12pm the limit was lifted. actually I think $18,000 is a good price as very probable to have at least one privy . On eBay a sealed package is going for close to $350.
If you do the math that’s $17,500. plus the price of a privy gets you to close to 22,000
Look and see
Was ordered after 12 o’clock October 16
Look and see
But were there any with the privy mark in that box?
Ordered after 12 PM on October 16
Nice score,
Please do look and see!
I’m predicting that you’ll get a privy, so please post a photo of it!
Maybe just sell the whole box sealed
For 18k?
I don’t think so, but let us know how that sale worked out, the one E1 posted above. That’s you isn’t it.
AKA, the End of the Line, Antonio. All good things must end, eh?
I just got 1 ordered. I was in the waiting room for around 1 minute. now just have to wait if i got the golden privy and ticket. good luck folks.
Well I ordered one really quick on my laptop. I was trying to purchase on my phone but that blue product availability page just never took me to the coin. I hope I get the 230 privy mark because I intend to send it in for grading and flip it.
No website hangups. I placed my order at 12:02PM or 12:03PM EDT. I’m never lucky so I’m not counting on the 230 privy.
My order also went through at 12:02pm ET. Entered waiting room at 11:50am ET. After a 10 minute wait, I was in the site at 12 noon. Good luck to all of us hoping to get the privy mark medal (and maybe even the signed COA)!
I was in the waiting room for about 15 minutes. Dare I say that the design and history are enough to make it a compelling purchase? With or without the privy mark?
1794 is not a lot. 5k preorder may be a steal. There used to be something called, “Strong Hands” so I think it likely a quarter to possibly well over half of them will never hit the market.
What’s a waiting room? I went in at 12:51 EDT and got right in. Since only one available per order, I went right to payment. Beats the fiasco of 2021. I see the gold ones are already on eBay. Go figure. I doubt any of us will get one with the privy mark. The select dealers get those. These silver medals are already being advertised at $249 to $395. Guess I already made my money back and then some.
When you go to the US Mint Catalog page they don’t always take you right there. They had the waiting room before 12:00 EDT to limit the number of user on the site. My desktop showed me a 6 minute wait to go to the catalog. My laptop brought me in immediately so I could get the medal as as fast as I select it and check out. By 12:51 EDT a lot of the initial activity probably subsided so you got right in. The USM has had the waiting room before. I remembered in the past the system would… Read more »
But not today. I remember when I ordered my 1995 Gold Coin Set with W Silver Eagle. Had to mail the order form in. No internet to order from back then. That Silver Eagle I knew would be a coin to have. I could only afford one but I’ve made my money back many times over. I feel privileged to own one. Sure it’s only a PF68 by PCGS but I have one.
I used my tax refund to purchase two sets in 1995. Still have both sets including the temporary packaging they were initially mailed. I knew these were going to be winners but I only had enough $ to buy two.
Eric,
Post facto congrats to you! Most folks will never see even one of those.
Vinnie C,
The worst crashes occurred before the Mint got its act together in staving off Bot attacks, the most egregious of which would completely jam up the works.
Antonio,
Since it’s always better to be on the winning side of a zero sum game, sell now!
I know. I should sell before the price settles.
Antonio,
God forbid you should take my advice in this matter; I make bad decisions.
All of this hype makes me remember PT Barnum. So happy I quit the game. Feels more like Pokémon than coin collecting any more.
I’ll stick to looking for that extra V penny and 2024 nickels – Much cheaper and better bang for the buck to me.
Good luck to y’all FOMOs
2023 Extra V Population Update:
NGC (10/14/24): Number Certified: 347
PCGS (10/14/24): Number Certified: 137
ANACS (10/14/24): Number Certified: 153
Total Number Certified to date by all 3 TPGs (10/14/24): 637
Not many authenticated Extra Vs exist and the certification rate is declining.
I just got my first 2024 AWQ in a roll of quarters Saturday, October 12th. This is the longest that I’ve waited to get a new coin. I have 3 or 4 2024 cents. No nickels or dimes yet. Where are all the 2024 coins?
They are sent directly back to be melted. That process is in the loop. Another way government increases inflation.
But seriously I haven’t seen many in circulation either
PT Barnum’s famous quote is especially aimed at those folks buying from feeBay. I passed on this as I’m not a medal collector, but hope some on this thread get one of the privy coins or the signed COA. I have a funny feeling that the Big Boys are going to get most of those, but we’ll see.
DaveSWFL,
In the old days collecting came first and flipping was a distant second. Now flipping is all the rage and collecting is what you attend to when all the buying and selling is done.
Since I’m a collector and not an investor, I’m on the side of keeping mine. It’ll join the other silver medals in my collection.
There you go, Antonio. A coin/medal collecting gentleman from the old school!
I’m in the same boat as you Antonio – collector and not a flipper.
DaveSWFL,
To paraphrase the lyrics of a song from My Fair Lady, “I think he’s got it!”
I keep looking for that extra leaf on the Wisconsin quarter.
Placed my order as well. It’s a piece of history. It would’ve been nice if they could’ve got Congressional authorization to make it a coin. But it’s worthy to commemorate this special occasion.
Salivate Metal,
What concerns me the most here is that if people simply and automatically continue to accept these Silver Medals in lieu of Silver Coins as a matter of course any of the impetus which might hopefully still exist to attempt to bring about a change regarding this clearly inequitable policy of Gold Coin vis a vis Silver Medal will cease to be relevant.
That’s true. We can only wait and see how the future unfolds. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes when the gold coins are released.
Antonio,
Since there will be far fewer Gold Coins available than Silver Medals those should vanish rapidly if the pattern of the wealthy scooping up the top of the line on anything expense-wise holds true. Scrooge McDuck, start your engine!
Yep Kaiser, the gold coins will vanish quickly. However, the 1,794 silver medals will reign supreme monetarily unless the Mint does another gimmick like the privy mark on a few of the gold coins.
If you placed your order at 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, 3:00 pm – can you list your time and order number MINUS the last two digits?
For example, USM148470xx, (my order at 12:08)
I want to calculate the number of orders, and the rate of orders per hour..,
Don’t freak out, this has been done dozens of time on MNB over the years, & no one can comprise your order,
Again, looking for top of the hour order numbers (minus the last two digits), For 12, 1, 2, & 3 pm….
Thanks,
There were at least 8,600 orders placed between 12:05 and 12:12..,
(So banging out ~ 1,200 orders / minute for that time block)
Looking for a starting order at 12:00 pm,
& 1 pm, & 2 pm…, thanks
9:02AM PT
Confirmed USM148422XX
My order was confirmed at 12:22 148412XX
My order is at he same range as John Moore
USM148412XX The confirmation time was 12:21PM EDT but I get an “order received” e-mail at 12:02PM EDT which was when my transaction was complete. Even a 1PM number or a 12:30PM number would be interesting. I’m guessing about 16,000 were sold by 12:12 PM.
Mine came in at 148414xx, with me taking my sweet time confirming my order.
On a different website, I saw someone posting their confirm was 148397xx
I had 148394xx. It said I was 16 minutes out from letting me in then kicked me immediately to the coin. Checked out by 11:01cst and had a confirmation at 11:14cst. Pretty cool lottery ticket!
My order USM148409xx was processed at 12:02.
KCSO,
f(x)=ax³+bx²+cx+d
When does y=0 on the x axis?
y=0 is when the sell out occurs and x is the number of hours it takes.
All you need is four ordered xy pairs to extrapolate.
Use MS Excel.
Fit a Trendline.
Your first ordered pair should be x=0 and y=75000 or (0, 75000).
I was let in at 12:00EDT (already logged onto the mint website with saved payment details). Order USM148409xx. I think I was done around 12:03.
My order was confirmed at 12:03 148457XX
I received my confirmation too. I’ll go back to sleep now. 😀
12:08 est 148536xx
How many people will return it. If they dont get the Privy
Many, especially the big boys kicking back those <70? I bought 3 Flowing Hair silver rounds, pretty nice as well. The Mint’s BS, FOMO acts and Ventris auto OOOOH, mean butkiss to me so I passed. No biggy, shut out on so much me no care….. it’s purdy but 3x spot +++ for a sanitized looking FH nope. The gold @ 17,500 same story but way too many for good leg$ in the aftermarket….. we’ll see
John Q. Coinage,
Very inventively worded and surely well phrased commentary. A verbal delight!
Only 2 left at $5,300 PCGS MS-70 with privey. I don’t think that medal will have legs in the long run.
East Coast Guru,
By typical Etsy standards this Medal should be going for the price of a Ferrari by now.
Well, I’m not sure about breaking my boycott of the mint. As a cruise through the mint available items I know if the 2023 American liberty metal is available with unlimited cartridges. As with this FH here, MINTAGE 75,000 that’s a LOT FOR A MEDALA….I think now the bronco may have finally sold out. Just not sure if I buy one —>It’s because of my gambling nature, 3% isn’t very good odds, kind of white hitting 20 in Blackjack…..
Despite all the hype surrounding this release I expect it to be around for a while with mintage limit of 75,000. The 2023 Amer Liberty 1-oz silver medal was released on Aug 10, 2023 with the same mintage limit and so far, only 34,946 have sold as of Oct 13, 2024. The chance of a privy or signed coa will result in more initial sales, but there will be many, many returns.
Yep, lots of returns if people/dealers etc don’t get a privey or autograph or a 70 grade.
East Coast Guru and Major D,
There are potentially 73,206 returns minus whatever plain medal 70’s go on Ebay.
Major BO CU already, no limits MEZAK and MEZAK Jr. loaded up $500 for reg. $4,000 for privy and $10k for Ventris hancocking…..
Apparently the sky’s the limit while good old Chicken Little is still taking his nap.
Who would ever have thought in their wildest dreams that the Ventris Gibson autograph would be worth far more than a Privy Mark on the Flowing Hair Silver Medal?
Herself…
Rich, So, have you been able to figure out how many Sales there were today? I wonder just how long it’s going to take to Sell Out. I’m having second thoughts about it even Selling Out tomorrow. This could take a while. The only thing it has going for it to insure a Sell Out is the Privy & signed COA. If not for that, it could take a few months to Sell Out. It’s going to be interesting. If it was a coin and not a Medal, it would Sell Out tomorrow, my opinion!!! I’d probably load up on… Read more »
AK Bob, as Major D just suggested, this medal will probably not sell out for some time to come. I do not know the sales figures for today, but would venture to guess that about 25,000 medals will be sold by noon tomorrow, during the first 24 hours of sales. And by the end of the week, the sales through Sunday may be about 35,000 – 40,000 (just a guess). I agree with your comments on the Flowing Hair Gold Coin – yes the mintage should have been 10,000 (12,500 maximum).
.
Rich, that’s a good guess on the sales through Sunday. Just for fun, I’m going to say a bit less, 25,000 medals through Sunday, Oct 20 (6 days). For comparison, the 2023 Am Liberty (23DB) had sales of 21,308 for the 4 days after release (Aug 10 to Aug 13, 2023): US Mint Sales: 2023 American Liberty Products Debut (coinnews.net).
And the 2024 L&B (24YB) had sales of 16,218 for the 4 days after release (Feb 8 to Feb 11): US Mint Sales: 2024 Liberty & Britannia Products Debut (coinnews.net). Both of these silver medals (and the 2022 Am Lib) also had 75,000 mintage limit- however, 24YB is currently unavailable at 33,183 sales. The unknown is whether the mintage for FH (24YH) will take after the L&B or the 2022 Am Liberty (22DB) with 74,415. I personally would be happy to see the FH medal mintage cap out below 34K.
Major D, I suspect your studied, data-based estimates of the sales figures for 2024 Flowing Hair Silver Medal will be borne out. BTW, its nice to have you back…
Rich, Major D and AKBob, I’m following this thread with great interest since I am very curious as to which of your predictions will come closest to the eventual outcome. After all, I am watching some heavy hitters in action here. 🙂 Just a thought, but I can’t help but believe there will sooner rather than later quite likely be a reverse tide clashing with the outgoing sales as soon as the returns to the Mint start coming in and piling up. I think the effect of that will serve as a discouragement down the line for potential buyers from… Read more »
Thanks, Rich. I just had to chime in on this one. I’m going to revise my prediction and go much higher on the debut sales. 50-60K? The Oct 27 and Nov 3 sales reports are the ones to watch for the big returns. When the dust settles, I do think it will be closer to 20K at the end of three weeks. Once the returns start, the chances of getting a coveted privy or signed coa become diminished as Kaiser suggested, leading to lesser sales. For right now, I see the regular medal’s resale being about $74, so the other… Read more »
It sure didn’t take long to become unavailable after the HOL was lifted. I think the Mint was very misguided in its approach. It’s like searching through a coin roll, in that if you don’t find anything then take it back for a full refund. No downside and huge upside.
I’m just a lone coin collector making my way through the numismatic galaxy. One coin is enough for me. I don’t have enough disposable income to buy multiple coins, regardless of the potential return. 😐
Antonio,
You may be a lone collector, as in fact are we all, but not a single one of us has to be either alone or lonely as long as we have these coin conversations to connect us. Speaking of numismatically-inclined galactic travel, “Live long and prosper!”
If only our coin success would multiply like tribbles.
Hey that episode was on LAST NIGHT! MEZAK et al., the Borg to use Collectors, sucking up all the wanted stuff, leaving behind scratched unwanted “equipment”
John Q. Coinage,
Lower the Borg Queen’s head and spinal column into her artificial body and send her to work shilling for the equally omnipresent Magic Mike. Remember, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!
Unfortunately, knowing our track record with the US Mint we are far more likely to encounter the Trouble than the Tribbles.
Major D, It’s always a pleasure to see you back here riding across the boundless numismatic range; giddyup li’l privies! And of course I’m not surprised you dropped in fully equipped with a big bonus bingo, this one in regard to your obviously keen analysis of yet another of the Mint’s misbegotten strategies, one that has the potential of going seriously and sadly awry. It seems the idea was that baiting 75,000 Medal hooks with an occasional privy without or with a signed COA would be more than enough to lure enough customers for a sell-out. The premise was sharp… Read more »
Or sell it at more than twice the price they paid for it. Silly government. Investing is for investors.
That brings up the embarrassing question of who is the silliest; the government we elected or those of us who voted for them?
Does anyone know if the gold coin will have a privy/signed COA version?
REB,
At least so far there has been no indication from the Mint of that being the case.
USM148570XX @ 12:13
Question for all – do you personally know anyone or did anyone here reading this get a signed COA for greatest Generation?
I’d be curious to know?
Tony@GA,
Not a surprise to me that I don’t remember hearing about those; when and how many?
To those that posted your order sequence, thanks much, it helps to figure these releases out.., so I appreciate it! From past experiences with much better data points, on these hot releases, typically the sales are rapid and consistent from 12:00 to 12:15 EST, then tapper off significantly, and then down to a trickle by 12:40, and then picks up around 3:00 pm EST as the Left Coast is on lunch… By my estimates – There was upwards of 3,000 orders per minutes for the several minutes, then tapered to around 2,000, and by 12:10 down to 1,000+/min., By 12:15,… Read more »
Anyone have a recent order number this evening ?
Or around 2 or 3 pm EST?
Again, only need the 123xx and the time you ‘placed’ the order,
USM148773xx @ around 3 PM EST or thereabouts
My simple curve fit of the limited data gives about 6000 * ln (minutes on sale) (ln() is the natural log function). Techsjj’s 3 hour data seem to fall in line. This would suggest something more than 40,000 at the 24 hour mark. When the household limit is lifted this simple model breaks down. It is probably a faulty model to begin with. I sure miss the days when you could do “view source” on the US Mint sales page and extract the available quantity.
2024 Flowing Hair 230th Anniversary Silver Medal – WITH 230 PRIVY MARK
$2,650.00
72 bids · Time left
14h 39m left
Is it PCGS graded MS-70?
It’s an OGP Guru…
https://www.ebay.com/itm/116351923952
Ahhhh… this will be interesting to see where ends up at.
It can be fascinating to see what’s what when the dust finally settles.
Yes, indeed East Coast Guru. As with those coveted W quarters that were supposed to be secretly added into Fed circulation rolls, you’ve got to wonder about any nefarious activity steering them into certain hands.
I got two in rolls of quarters I got from my bank.
I bought over $600 of quarter rolls, looking for W. I got 2 Lowel MA in a roll of others! Scam. FH scam. Some dude in Oklahoma has tons of W, does he work at Brinks, Loomis, BoA…..scam
John Q., I must admit I’m a skeptic, too. There’s just too much opportunity for mischief when the W quarters were selling for $25 a piece. That would mean a box of 50 quarter rolls of W’s valued at $50,000.
I myself found two W mintmark coins in rolls of quarters I got from my bank. They were random and I was surprised I found them. I still look, in case there are any more out there.
The percentage was extremely minuscule for the # of quarter I went through. Some solid BU rolls, but no Ws….. privy schmivy
John Q. Coinage, Antonio and Major D, I looked for those W Quarters everywhere until I couldn’t be bothered anymore; I never picked up a single one. I did manage to get the following which one each accompanied Annual 2019 and 2020 Mint Sets in W Cents and W Nickels: 2 – 2019 UNC Sets: 2 – W UNC Cents 2 – 2019 PR Sets: 2 – W PR Cents 3 – 2019 SPR Sets: 3 – W RPR Cents 3 – 2020 PR Sets: 3 – W PR Nickels 5 – 2020 SPR Sets: 6 – W RPF Nickels… Read more »
Scam they were taken by Armored car distributors or Tellers. Never really circulated like 2008 small change or 2024s, hidden by Ventris or her Minions as a retirement hedge….
Rick,
I checked out the linked page and the currently very popular “Buy the holder not the medal” vibe struck me full force. I suppose since the real prizes on this one are going to be in such extremely short supply other “bright and shiny things” have to be brought to the fore as attention-getters.
Sold for $3,350.
Noticed on eBay this add : 2024 Silver Medal
Flowing Hair 230th Anniversary
Advance Releases
MS 70
SAMPLE-000
ADVANCE RELEASES™
I would think that all the coins marked with the 230 mark are already gone to the coin dealers this dealer had over 10 advance release coins there is no way to compete with these coins being released to advance release companies, so I’m not expecting my coin to be marked they are already out in the hands of the dealers.
Tony Stubblefield,
Based on prior experience it would appear rhat your supposition isn’t far off the mark.
So it would appear only the favored coin dealers received the privy marked medals and therefore the signed COAs as well. The only way to obtain these medals is through the dealers.
still available at 527AM est
My question is how do these people on E bay selling graded and ungraded privy minted coins when they do not even have them yet? And people are bidding on them for thousands of dollars do you really think they are worth that much .I ordered one and the chance of me receiving one is very slim what are the odds of the US mint knowing who they sold the privacy mint coins to? How many people do you know are willing to pay thousands of dollars for this medal not me what about you?
Mike they don’t know how many they’ll get. These are pre-sales. They are buying a high volume of coins through their network. They’re making estimates on how many 70’s, 69’s, and Privies that they’ll get. If they do not have enough coins “in stock”, they’ll simply cancel the order even up to the last few seconds of an auction.
To cancel an eBay auction, or even a confirmed sale, all it takes is a click or two to cancel an order due to being “out of stock”, etc…
Rick,
With the addition of your explanation as to exactly how that works at Ebay it becomes even more glaringly obvious that this Flowing Hair Silver Medal release with the promise of a few privy marks and even fewer signed COAs (as a major part of the sales talk) clearly is not only a come hither for higher sales volume but a truly monumental gamble all around. Thanks again for the further clarification!
eBay has funky practices, I’ve won some great deals. Only for it to be cancelled for lost or now “damaged “ item…. Poopycock
John Q. Coinage,
Not to be or sound like a downer, but if your orders were cancelled for being lost or damaged it would quite frankly be hard to call them “great deals.”
The point is I believe they were NOT lost or “damaged” an excuse by the seller easy out when their item sold for less than anticipated….. easy peasy (Peary WTF spellcheck) cancel.
Bingo!
Any idea on whether the USM will wait for a sellout, then mix the privy/certs into the 75,000; or will the USM mix then in beforehand, then ship the coins, er medals, as they are sold ?
In other words, will the privy/certs still be possible in 1-2-3 weeks or months if there’s no sellout soon ?
In the case of a non-sellout, will the USM destroy all of the remaining medals, including the privy/certs?
just askin’
A.Johnson,
Quite interesting and certainly relevant questions, ones to whose answers we are most likely not “privy” (pun obviously intentional) to.
It appears that the household limit on these medals will end at noon Eastern.
Wouldn’t it be a good idea for someone to order 10-20-30 or more of these medals, hope for a privy/cert, and then return the rest?
A.Johnson,
Aha, you’ve caught onto how this unintended but almost inevitably so game works!
Well, that happened fast….
12:01 – House Hold Limit removed
12:02 – Currently Unavailable
What they had wasn’t many, and went fast.., I went to check out in half a minute and they were gone…. Gone Baby Gone….
So now we wait….
Surprised that it went to Remind Me status. Doubt it has sold out. I did add 4.
Hmmm… maybe they will go make more. Or, it will be back on sale once the returns of non-privey medals and 69’s are back in stock.
Yeah, I’m sure they’ll be plenty ‘becoming available’ 😉 when the non-Privy medals are returned (perhaps in mass? IDK, something I would not do, though suspect is happens)
It’ll be interesting to see the amount of returns.
Antonio,
It will all depend on whether people who receive plain FH Silver Medals will try to sell them or just return them to the Mint. We shall see.
Based on the past, there will be an avalanche of MEDAL returns, The Au may have mintage issues, but will also CU quickly
John Q. Coinage, Antonio and others in this thread,
The real problem for the Mint hasn’t even raised it’s ugly head yet. Every further prospective buyer knows that the chance of receiving a privy marked Medal is now far smaller considering all the already-picked-through returns that will henceforth be going out to fulfill new orders. What a conundrum!
I meant to check at 12PM EDT but forgot. I guess the big boys are trying to score some $3000-$6000 some privy mark coins to sell (or they’ve already sold). I wonder if they had the entire 75,000 product limit available to ship. I’m guessing not.
VinnieC,
Big Dealers = Big Purchases = Big Sales. Who else wins every such sales contest?
KCSO, Well, that’s a big surprise! I doubt they’ve made the 75K mintage. Why would they stop selling these if the only reason was they haven’t minted all of them? I think it’s a shame no body was able to procure any today. That seems “OFF” tho. Just doesn’t make cents. I think the Big Boyz have and are cornering the market on the Privy and COA’s! Since the Mint allows “Advance Release” coins to the AP’s & Big Boyz, the Mint should NOT allow the AP’s and Big Boyz to purchase anymore until the third day of the release.… Read more »
AKBob, why wouldn’t the big $ dealers buy as many as they can get? That’s likely what happened once the HOL was lifted. Search through them for the privy and signed coa and return all the rest.
Major D,
You are firing on all burners today, my friend. It may not always be what people want to hear, but as they say, “The truth will set you free!”
The big joke is the mint supposedly made returns harder…. Oh yeah
John Q. Coinage,
The Mint made returns more difficult for us, the little people. I don’t believe for a minute that the Mint would put that kind of a squeeze on their Big Dealer “golf buddies.”
AKBo,
The only real surprise would be if the scenario you presented didn’t occur. C’est la vie.
Boo Hoo, I am jaded. If u knew and wanted u got 1, if not MEZAK got 2,000 this Am….as someone said They’ll be BACK rejects
John Q. Coinage,
“The only constant is change” except when it comes to “The Golden Rule, as in ‘He who has the gold makes the rules’ “.
Okay Boys & Girls…. wrapping this up for ya as a courtesy…
I’m flabbergasted with the strength of sales in the first few hours…
Estimate is that ~ 39,000 – 41,000 ORDERS were placed in the first few hours…
They just cleared remaining system inventory in under a minute at 12:02 (HHL wasn’t removed until 12:01)
Maybe they had in inventory = 39,000 – 44,000 ?
Darrin or Mike – would you mind calling Michal White at (202) 354-7222, pleazzzz….. for a sales number?
I’ve called twice, they don’t want to talk us little people,
Thanks!
My ordered shipped.
??? That was quick. Sure it wasn’t the Mint email today stating they’re beginning to ship 2024 American Women Quarters™ Honoring Zitkala-Ša on October 21?
USPS informed delivery sent tracking to me before US Mint sent email saying shipped.It has left Coppel Texas already.
Wow! Good going getting an early shipment. I was thinking it may take two, three weeks or longer before mailings.
Yep, I saw the same thing from USPS then later, an email from the Mint informing of shipment.
Surprised this item processed and mailed quickly. Guess the Mint was busy of the summer pressing these medals.
Now I wonder how many will be returned if they don’t have the privy mark?
Chris Terp,
One thing the Mint has been doing right this year is the speed with which it has been filling its orders. Everybody has to be good at something!
Still waiting. All i got was received and confirmation emails.
Looks like there will be a near sell-out of the limit on the upcoming Oct 20 sales report. But that seeming strength of sales is going to be very short-lived as there will be a return frenzy of 20K-30K in the weeks after.
Thank you for doing this research.
First day sales: 31,695 units, per Mint.
What happened to the other 43,305? Interesting to say the least. I’m interested in seeing what the returned number will look like.
Antonio, I’d say the remainder went in Day2 after the HOL was lifted. But I’d caution again about returns. And when it becomes available again as it surely will, there’s likely no privy or signed coa to be had in Round2.
Major D,
And there, my fellow collectors, is today’s Trifecta! The strategy the Mint pursued to fire up interest in the initial sales of this Medal is now ironically going to be its downfall in any further aspirations in that very direction. Unless both Major D and I (and others) are sorely mistaken, the big crash in Medal sales is just right around the corner.
Thank You.
Thanks MIke!
Thank ya Sir, appreciate it and timely informative articles!
KCSO, your estimate of 40,000 orders placed in the first few hours and that there was possibly an initial inventory of 40,000+ medals available (out of the 75,000 product/mintage limit) is in agreement with VinnieC’s curve-fitting estimate suggesting something more than 40,000 orders placed at the 24 hour sales mark. And as you suggested after the HOL was lifted there probably were not many medals left available to purchase, and within a minute the product became “currently unavailable.” Note, the medal was not in Back Order status before becoming Currently Unavailable (The Mint states, Currently Unavailable products have no remaining… Read more »
Rich, KCSO, and Vinnie C, I applaud your sleuthing and forecasting abilities! Another possibility is that there were some heavy $ hitters swinging for the remaining available stock once the HOL was lifted. Kind of like those who buy whole rolls of lottery ticket scratchers– but with much better odds and payoff potential here given that you can return the losers for refund. The Oct 20 sales number will be interesting to see. Then afterwards, what the Mint does with the returns.
“AvailableCount” is back and someone on Collector’s Universe posted the AvailableCount for the and Flowing Hair Medal was 7,500 early this morning. That and Mike Unser’s 1st day sales numbers suggest that not all of 75,000 medals were up immediate shipment in yesterday’s sales.
Great news about the AvailableCount function, thanks VinnieC! Regarding the First Day Sales figure of 31,695 units, per the Mint, via Mike: Is it the number of sales for the 12 period from noon to midnight on October 15th or is it the sales figure for the 24 hour period from noon 10/15/24 to noon 10/16/24? And does this sales figure include the Advance Release sales from October 14th? If we assume the 31,695 units figure is for the “24-hour” first day of sales before the HOL was removed, and that the AvailableCount was approximately 7,500 early this morning before… Read more »
Rich,
I just found your post here after I posted basically the same thing on another article. I didn’t mean to repeat your observations. I do share your overall sentiments…
Thanks again VinnieC for the AvailableCount heads-up. I recall the Mint did a split back in 2022 for the Amer Liberty silver medal (22DB) with only half of the 75K mintage limit available at time of release on Aug 18 and the other half dropping in December. This one is much more time compressed to do a twofer before the EOY.
Yes indeed, thanks much Vinnie, 8 were available this a.m.,
Vinnie C,
The “Return of Available Count”; a sort of a “Second Coming” of our own.
Major D,
Can we feel the heat of coin smelters being fired up in preparation?
I should have stopped at the end of the first hour! Oops.., 😉
It get’s wonky after the the first 30-40 minutes or so..,
What do you all think about 1st day sales of the FHG ?
17,500 is A LOT, IMHO, the mint kinda of ruined the party going over 15,000, 12,500 would have been ideal, 10,000 would have been awesome,
Does the FHG sell out over the 1st weekend ?
KC&SO, consider the L&B Gold (24YA). Released on Feb 8. Sales of 4,013 on Feb 11, 4,249 on Feb 18, 4,934 on Feb 25, 5,064 on Mar 3.
Unless the Mint does another limited privy and signed coa, I’d say FHG will have 3.5 to 4K in 1st day sales. I agree with you that the mintage limit is too high. But like with L&B Gold (mintage limit 10,000; latest sales look capped at 5,549) the Mint may make only half (8,750) and be done with it
I agree the FHG mintage/product limit = 17,500 is too high; it should have been 10,000 like the 2024-W L&B Gold Coin or 12,500 like the 2021-W American Liberty Gold Coin. Regarding the 1st day of sales and the 1st week of sales (for the potential of a sell out) of the FHG, the scenario could play out as Major D has just suggested with comparison to the 2024 L&B Gold or the debut sales could be more like that of the 2021 American Liberty Gold coin, which was released on 8/19/2021 for $2,715 and lasted about 24 hours before… Read more »
Seems like about 75% of my Posts are put in the “waiting for approval” or something like that. I’m not adding anything like websites, etc., so why are my Posts being held back? One or two haven’t been approved. I haven’t said anything that I’m aware of that would cause this. Weird!!
Ok, I see now why two of my Posts today are waiting approval because somehow the “b” in AKBob was missing so the Posts are AKBo. That answers that but what about my Posts from several days ago?
AKBob,
I’ve encountered this myself. Sometimes it’s a mistake in the sign-in, other times it’s a complete mystery.
Welp, now I hope I’m one of the lucky ones to get one of the privy mark medals – fingers crossed for the mission impossible.
As one commenter mentioned earlier (I forgot who) that when they called the mint about the privy medals, he was told the first 1,794 orders would get one. Another commenter called the mint and was told the privy was randomly salted away in various piles. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between. AP’s spend a lot of money at the mint, thus they probably can twist some arms to get favors. Perhaps they only got 1/4 of the total 1794 privy’s but that amount will be more than enough to meet their year end sales goals. Also, if the mint… Read more »
Let’s just say I’m not holding my breath for one of the privy ‘s ECG.
I think they’re just going to randomly ship them, especially now since the medal has sold out.
Like the 1913 Liberty nickels.
East Coast Guru,
What we are sorely lacking is a contemporary Mint version of a Deep Throat informant.
Buy a $100 silver medal. If you dont get a privy. Mail the medal back for a refund. Minus shipping cost. Very stupid of the U.S Mint.
I totally agree with you, Mark. Especially for the loyalty customers that get free shipping there was absolutely nothing to lose. It’s like a raffle offering free refunds on tickets that didn’t win the prize.
73,206 returns 😀
You win the blog tonight, Antonio!
Major D and Antonio,
Antonio’s comment does win the Bullseye of the Day Award!
Kaiser, great minds obviously think alike! I just saw your comment while scrolling above: “There are potentially 73,206 returns minus whatever plain medal 70’s go on Ebay.” Not sure who was first, but it looks to be a tie. So, you and Antonio both deserve the Bullseye of the Day Award. Well done!
Thank you! I’m keeping my medal though. As of today I’ve made at least a $125 profit. Not worth returning to the Mint. Better to sell it online. But I’m keeping mine anyway. I’m a collector. It’s what I do. 😀
I should clarify, a COIN collector (even though this is a medal).
Major D,
Thank you very kindly, and I am more than happy to share that generous compliment with our mutual friend Antonio!
I do believe I’ll get “my half” of the BOTD Award encapsulated!
There is always that possibility, Antonio. Give it some time to see what happens.
Ha ha ha – agree Antonio! 😉
The Mint’s marketing gimmick may come back and hurt them 😉
ChrisTerp,
I would hazard a guess the probability of that happening is 99%. 😉
Precisely, Major D. Right on the money (pun clearly intended).
i don’t collect medals and i don’t collect autographs, so i’ll pass on this one. much success to all who do.
morgant,
I guess I’m not the only one who feels this way. Still, good luck to everybody else!
Do you think these Flowing Hair silver and gold issues are pushing the price of bullion up? An interesting thought.
Money printing has pushed the price of bullion up imo.
That same money printing also boosts the stock market.
When the dollar is weaker, the perceived value of everything goes up.
More money printed in last 15 years than all prior. Think about THAT
Or, Rick, when people are willing to put their bets on both stocks and precious metals as candidates for sustainable growth, the dollar is a less popular means of exchange and as such may drop in value.
Antonio, I suppose it’s not outside the realm of possibilty for everything in the economy, much akin to what allegedly happens with the “Butterfly Effect”, to have a material effect on everything else. That aside, what I might be a bit more alert and/or concerned about at the moment is exactly how much all this fol de rol regarding the FH Silver Medals and FH Gold Coins may be doing to distract the numismatic community from what could be described as its normal course by way of all the time, effort and money spent on flipping rather than collecting coins… Read more »
looks like they sold out!
email said mine shipped today
Another botched roll out by the Mint. When will they learn? When will they get a director with customer service and numismatic experience? Releasing a limited privy / COA edition at random will upset more than it will excite. One per address for collectors – while still allowing dealers (re-sellers) multiples is more of the same ol, same ol. I’ve come to accept that the US mint works for dealers/ graders. Don’t believe me? See who Gibson goes to work for once her tenure as director ends.
MichaelC,
Absolutely correct, right on point, bullseye, indubitably so and a really big amen!
Finally got my shipped email at 11am today (Thursday)
Arrived today (Friday). No privy mark.
Nice clamshell presentation box and card inside.
Wonder how many returns will see from folks w/no privy mark?
Good to hear on the clamshell box and all. Shucks on the privy mark. I am holding on even w/o the privy mark.
Me as well Rooster. I was purchasing this medal even before knowing of the Mint’s privy mark gimmick.
The only privy mark coins I own are the O and CC Morgan Dollars. Mind you they’re coins and not medals.
My privy marks Antonio are the O and the 75th Anniversary WWII Silver Dollar.
I never did find a W quarter with a 75th Anniversary WWII privy mark.
Hi Chris and Rooster, my FHS medal also arrived today. Also no privy mark. The medal is beautiful and in pristine condition. This looks like a hot product, with one of the largest online dealers currently selling them for $223 in Mint issue OGP.
Rich: Imagine if it had been a coin what the price could be. I thought at best $125-$150 range for this medal on secondary. Dang on that privy mark but nice you did get a pristine one.
Thanks, Rooster. You are going to love this medal when you see it and congratulations on scoring 4 more of them right before they became unavailable.
Rich: Thanks. Tomorrow is when I’ll be getting one with the rest coming on Monday. Can’t believe those prices on eBay though. Starting bid price of $500 or so for sealed boxes. No bidders yet on those.
Rooster,
I’ll be the first to admit I simply don’t understand the concept of selling a sealed box Medal for $500 unless you are somehow very sure there’s no possibility of having a Medal with a Privy Mark much less a signed COA in there; it just doesn’t seem to make sense. Or, the seller is playing the odds and assuming there’s no Privy Mark Medal inside but that someone else might pay $500 for it who is willing to take the chance of overpaying for it with whatever hope they might have of striking it rich.
Rooster,
This is precisely what I have in my own little way been campaigning for: a coin!
Rich,
The graded 70’s went up $100 from yesterday. There’s one on eBay, a 70, with the Privy and signed #10 COA for $24,999.99. Gulp, for a modern medal! Really! A year from now it’ll mostly be forgotten! The value probably will go down too on this very high priced Medal. It’ll sell tho, no doubt! 😉
I hear you, AKBob! Even the graded 69’s have gone up $100 from 2 days ago. I am seeing the 70 with the Privy solidly selling for $12,500 (no signed COA). That 70 privy with signed #10 COA for $25,000 is just super crazy!
Rich,
Now I’m very anxious to see what the asking price for the Flowing Hair Medal with a Privy Mark and the #1 Signed Certificate of Authenticity will be. What do you think…$100,000 perhaps?
AKBob,
Heck, why not sell it for the 25 grand (no credit cards) plus a lifetime pass to Disneyland and a beachfront villa on St. Barts? Sounds fair to me.
Life isn’t fair 😛
EZZZZZZACTLY Rich, this medal is outstanding, and the one I received is in excellent condition. The Mint did a great job with this medal.
Maybe they’re all UNC70 or SP70. Mine looks superb.
ChrisTerp,
This glowing endorsement from yet another fellow collector here almost makes me want to re-think my position in regard to this Medal. I can’t actually nail down a personal objective, or even subjective, opinion since our collective thoughts and speculations keep going all over the place!
Kaiser, next week when the returns start coming in you should be able to pick one upm
You can ask all,the $# in th world. What does it actually sell for…. No way 75k medal collectors
My 2024 medal came in today but it was in a priority mail bag with the U.S.Mint sale sheet really crappy way to send no box
Sorry to hear that, Ricky. You’re certainly not the first person here to experience and/or complain about this money-saving measure of the Mint. And so it goes.
got mine in the mail today with no privy. Still gonna keep it though, pretty nice though. to me nicer than the morgans and peace dollars
Why does the US mint not have a photo of the Flowing hair gold coin on there web site all it says is no image available and just the release date? Do you think it will sell out in five minutes when it goes up for sale?
i dont know, but i’m definitely gonna try to get it.
It may actually sell out. Is that a first for gold coins or not?
If the privy silver medals are any indication, the gold coin values are going to soar. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re gone in less than five minutes if not much sooner. Some people have the money. Gold is at $2,736.40 an ounce.
Coin Likely $3,900
They have to borrow one from Mezaks pre purchase bounty. 0ut fer slabbing
Received my medal today, Saturday. Fastest delivery yet. No privy mark. Nice medal though. No return on my part.
Congratulations, Antonio, on all counts!
I got mine on Saturday, as well. No privy mark, but I like the design and I’m unlikely to get a gold one or an original, so I’m definitely keeping it.
These look like high relief.
For kicks.., as I am overwhelmingly humored by the redonkulous absurdity of it all, and suspect I am not alone…
Here’s your FHS COA Counter – (listed price / sold price)
10 – $24,999 /
19 – $22,500 /
104 – $10,990 /
214 – $12,995 /
See a COA – list the #, & asking price and/or sold date here..,
KCSO,
167 – $10,999.00
AKBob and Keep Calm & Stack On,
And here I thought I was being unnecessarily frivolous when I proposed a possible asking price of $100,000 for the FH Silver Medal with Privy and COA#1!
KCSO,
214 – $10,995
215 – $10,995
216 – $10,995
218 – $10,995
These are all NGC MS70 Advanced Releases and their sales price was reduced from $12,499 today by dealer (priced at $12,499 on Oct. 18th & 19th).
Just noted, the signed COA #214 I listed is the same COA # listed by KCSO. This dealer is not displaying the signed COA, so perhaps they made a typo in the listing/description.
Rich,
How anyone could resist these new and improved bargain prices is beyond me!
Resistance is futile.
I am pleased w/my FH medal.
And next year I’ll sit in my Fortress of Solitude after receiving my silver Superman medal. (Yeah, I’m a sucker for Superman. My favorite action hero. Truth, justice and the American Way).
ChrisTerp,
At least you’re keeping them. For others, it’s Truth, Justice & the American Flipping Way!
😉 😉 😉
Your COA Counter.., after all, why buy the coin (or medal in this case), when you can collect the label, or better yet, a COA! as of 5 pm, 10/21 – (listed price / sold price) 10 – $24,999 / Delisted 19 – $22,500 / 104 – $10,999 / 114 – $18,999 / 167 – $10,999.00 > $15,000 / 193 – $15,000 / 214 – $12,995 > $10,995 > $12,995 / Sold – Best Offer (final $ not available on watchcount ) 215 – $10,995 / 216 – $10,995 / 218 – $10,995 > $12,995 / See any that need to… Read more »
Rick, I have a feeling these COA’s are going to “fizzle” out!! I also think the Privy coins will drop in price AND will definitely lose value going forward. These are after all Medals! I personally do not have anything against Medals! I just not only don’t collect Medals, I don’t collect Silver any longer. One other note, most Medals and Commems sell for right around Spot. If this were a coin, all bets are off but it isn’t. I think there’s going to be some disappointed Buyers and Sellers when all is said and done. I hate being the… Read more »
Silver is at more than $35 an ounce today (10/22) and gold at $2,762.90. Not a bad return and they seem to be rising everyday.
The Medal is crisp in appearance. It was worth the raffle atmosphere to gamble that I might pull off a privy. No luck……
I am seeing all these 2024 FH coins and medals listed on eBay. What’s odd is the gold FH coins are listed as having a $100 denomination. US Mint states it is a $1 coin.
I’m pretty sure you’re right, Rooster. On the other hand, if the Silver Medal had been released as a coin instead of a Medal it would have been a $1 piece.
Oh, I see what you mean now; I didn’t get your drift at first, my friend. The original coin back in the early days wasn’t made of gold while this current day version of it is, therefore it didn’t get it’s “promotion” to a $100 coin until this modern release.
I believe all those eBay postings at $100 are in error since it will be a $1 coin.
You are correct, Rooster. Even though the Mint still has not released a picture depiction of the coin, the Mint’s specifications for the 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High Relief Proof Gold Coin state Denomination: $1
Rich,
Is it entirely my imagination or is it in fact somewhat unusual for the Mint to put such a very low face value on one of its gold coins no matter what the reason?
Sir Kaiser, your astute observation is correct. The lowest face value on a US Mint gold coin is the 2016-W 10C (1/10 oz) Gold Mercury Dime coin. Totaling the 10 cent face value on 10 of these 1/10 troy ounce coins would equal $1 (and 1 oz of Gold), which would be somewhat equivalent to the the $1 Flowing Hair 1-oz Gold Coin (on a face value / metal content basis).
Let’s not forget it will be proof with a W mintmark.
indeed, the 2016 Centennial Series gold coins have the W mint mark but were issued as a business strike and exhibited a satin-like surface (SP, Special Strike).
Thanks for the definitive clarification, Rooster, as I was beginning to get myself ever more confused by my apparently speculative suppositions.
24YH – 2024 FLOWING HAIR SILVER MEDAL 1 OZ – 40,999 (10/20/2024)
First day sales of 31,695 must have just been through the day of Tuesday, 15 October..,
Sales of 9,304 is quite ‘healthy,’ to include the brief 1 minutes they were available on the 16th when the HHL limit was removed,
A lot more than I figured…, now the returns will be available next week,
That’s a nice mintage figure. If the returns make it under 40,000 that’s quite good for those of us who kept ours. The years will show if it turned out to be a good choice buying these.
Another 34,000 left to be sold…
Crazytown COA Counter as of 5 pm, 10/22 – (listed price / sold price) 10 – $24,999 / Delisted 19 – $22,500 > $17,500 / 25 – Auction starting at $6,800 / 104 – $10,999 / Sold for $9,500 112 – Auction, $1,825; or Buy It Now $16,500 / 114 – $18,999 / 167 – $10,999.00 > $15,000 / 193 – $15,000 / 214 – $12,995 > $10,995 > $12,995 / Sold – Best Offer (final $ not available on watchcount ) 215 – $10,995 / 216 – $10,995 / 218 – $10,995 > $12,995 / UNK # – Sold for… Read more »
KCSO, the signed COA #s 214, 215, 216 and 218 which I provided were all sold at the listed price of $10,995 by the online dealer (note, these were not ebay listings). They now only have a FHS Medal with privy (but no signed COA) NGC MS70 First Day of Issue for $7,995. And another dealer has a FHS Medal with privy (no signed COA) PCGS MS70 Advance Release for $7,500.
Rich,
I have to wonder why automobile dealerships haven’t yet bought into this idea, that if they were to randomly apply totally unique hood ornaments to every one thousandth or so car of a particular line they could add who knows how many grand to the list price of those specific vehicles.