The United States Mint marks a milestone today at noon ET, releasing the 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High Relief Gold Coin — a tribute to America’s first dollar coin.
Struck from 99.99% gold at the U.S. Mint’s West Point facility, the 1.000 troy ounce proof coin features designs in high relief, significantly enhancing their level of detail.
The original dollar we know today as the Flowing Hair silver dollar was first issued on October 15, 1794, under the guidance of Mint Director David Rittenhouse. The coin’s design was created by Mint Chief Engraver Robert Scot.
In October, the U.S. Mint issued the 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal as an additional nod to the legacy of America’s first dollar coin. The medal remained available for just over 24 hours before going off sale. Secondary market demand has been strong, particularly for the 1,794 medals featuring a "230" privy mark and the 230 that includes both the privy mark and a certificate of authenticity hand-signed by the Honorable Ventris C. Gibson, Director of the United States Mint.
None of today’s offered gold coins, limited to 17,500, will feature a privy mark, although the Mint has indicated it will later auction 230 examples bearing one.
Flowing Hair High Relief Gold Coin Designs and Specifications
Modern yet faithful renditions of Robert Scot’s designs appear on both the obverse (heads) and reverse (tails) sides of the 24K gold coin. After a brief introduction, the following U.S. Mint video provides more detail on the reproduction of these designs.
Re-sculpted by Mint Medallic Artist John P. McGraw, the obverse features a portrait of Liberty facing right, surrounded by 15 stars representing the states that had ratified the Constitution by 1794. "LIBERTY" is inscribed on the obverse as it was on the original, joined by "2024" to mark this year’s date.
Re-sculpted by Mint Medallic Artist Eric David Custer, the reverse design shows a laurel wreath encircling an eagle with spread wings at the center, accompanied by the inscription "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA."
The coin’s denomination is incused on the edge as "HUNDRED CENTS ONE DOLLAR OR UNIT."
The U.S. Mint has provided the following specifications for the coin:
2024 Flowing Hair Gold Coin Specifications
| Denomination: | $1 |
|---|---|
| Finish: | Proof |
| Composition: | 99.99% gold |
| Weight: | 1.000 troy ounce |
| Diameter: | 1.205 inches (30.61 mm) |
| Edge: | Lettered |
| Mint and Mint Mark: | West Point – None |
| Privy Mark: | None |
Ordering and Price
The 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High Relief Gold Coin can be ordered directly from the U.S. Mint starting at noon ET for $3,640 by visiting the Mint’s website page dedicated to gold coins. An initial household order limit of one applies.
Each coin is encapsulated and presented in a black clamshell case adorned with the United States Mint seal, housed within an outer sleeve featuring a gold-embossed image of the Flowing Hair dollar. A certificate of authenticity is also included.
All I can say is I think everyone will get there’s. It will most likely Sell Out tomorrow once the HHL is lifted as Rich stated above. I hope it Sells Out, at least no later than tomorrow. I will purchase one today and I’ll have four (4). I’m not worried about these not having Legs as I really love this coin! If it does great if not, it will eventually. If it Sells Out by today or tomorrow, it will have Legs at least initially. It’s going to be interesting for sure. Let the Games begin! 😉 Well, As… Read more »
Bob it was a scam apparently…..
My experience was thus: Logged into website about 8:57 a “cloud flare” page appeared and provided a 2 min “waiting room”. It them bounced to 3 min and about 5 seconds let me “in”. I logged into my account, went to “gold” -> “250 Ann Flowing Hair” -> it was not for sale yet. I clicked on silver coins header and immediately back to Gold, Flowing Hair as above placed in bag and checked out. Had to be careful to click two boxes after entering payment options. The entire visit was less than a minute, even with our very slow… Read more »
230 anniversary. I do typos well with my numb crippled up hands.
Sold out in less than five minutes. No HHL for this one. Remember there’s an international market as well as a domestic one. Maybe AKBob can get one at the auction. Otherwise, one only this time.
Uh supposedly a 1 HH 0h and the Flowing MEDAL 75k…. Ooops $50k
It sold out in 2 minutes.
Nice article and video on the FHG. However, no link to the mint’s sales page.
https://www.usmint.gov/230th-anniversary-flowing-hair-gold-coin-24YG.html
It is 8:20 AM Pacific Time Thursday morning 11/14/2024.
40 minutes and counting till lift off.
Let the festivities begin.
Keep us posted.
Cheers
Here’s a great coin video to watch afterwards.
Pass on to Beenie Nabies
E 1 Nice video! Amazing coins. Thanks for sharing.
E 1,
Thanks for sharing that. It was still a fun watch even though it’s common knowledge that Rick rehearses his “informative coin talks” before taping begins.
Well, the mints website seems to be working fine. Either they fixed the website bugs, or the demand is lacking. Or a combination of both.
boom, done
sold out in less than 5 minutes
Ok, heck they can keep it then. Crappy website. I was trying to order from the usual place as in the past. I guess you need to order from the outside of the coin details page. Strongly agree with John Q., this website sux.
Yes, now for the auction next month. This one will be one of the HOT items. One for the books?
That is going to be a blast to watch. I say watch because if these sold out this quickly then what will those coins sell for…I won’t be surprised if all of them take six figures to buy. I hope I’m wrong again. Is there a correlation between Donald and the sudden obsession for gold? If I could make a suggestion to the mint, it would be to continue pressing some of the classic designs in PM coins each year. It seems to be a viable way to move PM’s.
Craig,
Goes to show once again that whether in good times or bad times it makes no difference; somebody always has plenty of money to spare.
Kaiser,
I neither wanted or needed this coin, but if anyone does, I think most are on the eBay website. Makes you wonder if the mint didn’t already allocate most to the flippers of our new world. Of course you’ll have to pony up an additional 1k or so to get it. As they say, the business of America is business.
I still have two 1964 Kennedy Halves and a 1929 quarter saved from when I was a youth. I cherish being able to see this coin show up.
Craig, seems like u see what the story in reality. Something is fishy here Ventri$
I think it sold out.
12:04 and it is at ‘Remind Me’ status
Rooster,
Until it isn’t, but if that happens the Big Guys will, as always, be the first to know.
Kaiser I agree as they have their family, friends, and employees all in the game.
Relatively light “high traffic” on Mint website. At 11:55am ET virtual waiting room time was only 3 minute wait to enter site. Seamless functioning for ordering, in and out in 2 minutes.
Good for u.
FUCK THE US MINT
Sorry Whitman. Deserved
glad i got my 91cc $20
John Q. Coinage,
If I were you I might expect to be off Ventris’ Christmas card list this year. Oh well.
I don’t need a hunk o coal
Congratulations!
Was in waiting room before at 11:50, and then got knocked back to remind me page BEFORE noon. Says don’t refresh, but finally did at 4 minutes after and was sold out. Was just a lark, anyway, so not going to lose sleep over it, but website stinks….
You just made a “mint”! 😀
I had a 3 minute wait in the waiting room but was let in early it seems but I had to refresh the page to get the add to cart button which it worked. I got mine in less than 1min. Got confirmation email at 10:01 MST. I checked on another phone and was unavailable at 10:04 MST
Congratulations! You just doubled your investment (per eBay). You just made a “mint”. 😀
Antonio,
Not to be a wise ass, but one needs to get someone else to actually buy it first on feeBay before they ‘make a mint’. I see there is now over 5 very long pages of these on eBay!
Nobody is getting shit. Gone 9:02. Bs
i knew it and I said it…
FUCK THE MINT
Kind of like Ticketmaster
I actually used t9 be able to get show tix, and Mint issues, since 2017 scam sales, insider sales, authorized buyers like lamprey sucking up COLLECTOR coins for profit…if so,how much is the USM leaving on the table. Somewhere “Cag” is smiling
The same thing happened with the 1/10oz gold coins of type 1 and type 2 back in 2021. Sold out in a couple of minutes. However, the good news is that these are easily acquired at coin shows if you really want one. My powder is still dry, off looking for a spectacular $10 gold Indian.
Less than 1 minute in, in my bag, accept terms, click, and then gone.
Bye bye purchase price for this one…
So yeah or neah Rick? Same here I bag entered card clicked no go…wtf
unavailable….. bye bye mint
Is anyone surprised.
sell $63,000,000 in 2 min…INVESTIGATION
BS and cook # onFH medal Investigation
knucklehead mint directress..priceless
No deal for me, they told me to remove it from my bag because they were all gone at 12: 04
Same here….it’s still there. I do not follow their ORDERS
Nothi g else to get there anymore…
I thought you wrote you got one. Chinese government at work here? Bought ’em all out to resell at a profit?
I had it in my bag and upon checkout at 12.05 PM, product wass unavailable.
Sucks!
Ditto but it was 9:02……wasted as the mint kept flashing “Get a Membership “.
Did they sell all 17500 in just 5 minutes? I for one am surprised.
Craig,
I’d like to see Pawn Star Rick and Magic Mike Mezack go mano a mano for one of these.
Kaiser,
How much money do you think Magic Mike will be selling these for on HSN, with his ‘rare’ and ‘special’ label, of course. I’ll bet he starts off his presentation with ‘I know this isn’t for everyone, but….’.
His is already graded PF70. How’d he do that so fast? Something’s up? :-O
I don’t know Antonio, but I’ll lean towards your ‘something’s up’ speculation. I wish we had transparency in the mint as it would be nice to know if they sold all of them or only those they had pressed. I don’t have FOMO disease, so I’m just amused by all the emotion being displayed over an item from the mint. I wanted to get on the site to see if I could order one but got caught up watching E 1’s Pawn Stars clip on those unique coins and when I looked at the time it was 12:10.I wasn’t going… Read more »
Thanks Craig. I didn’t even try. Out of my league, cost wise. I was saddened to read about the experience of some here who tried to buy this one. The big boys get in, the rest of us stand outside to watch. They’ve already almost doubled in price on eBay, if they’re not still waiting for a higher bid. I enjoy looking at nice coins, not necessarily owning them.
Ebay takes close to 18%, what were these out the door with tax 3950$. Don’t think the hassle selling it was worth it??
No tax on mint purchases
No, in just 4 minutes. People had it in their bag and poof, gone!
Why would anyone care anymore. I had fired the Mint, I was I Focus groups. I said to do this
I was standing on the 24YG product page. I thought I cleared the waiting room, but close to 11:59:40 I hit refresh and ended up with a 3 minute waiting room which increased to 5 minutes. I opened a second browser I had a 3 minute waiting room, but it went CU before I could compete the transaction at about 12:04 EST. I wasn’t really thrilled about paying $3,640.
We’re you able to get one? Others were filling out CC information when they were kicked off by Sold Out. 🙁
I got to fill I all the info check to ok box, then nada….look look, some dumbass msg sold out NA take it out of bag, no you pendejos you take it out
Nope. I ended up with nothing.
Time for a walkabout. A very long walkabout.
Later
What just happened? It seems as though there were a whole variety of experiences regarding the successful and/or failed purchases of the 2024 FHG. I imagine once the dust settles a bit around this release it will be easier to make sense of it all.
F the Mint! Done with this crap for good!
Beat this story – this is HOW F’ed up the Mint’s website is…
Exactly at 12:30.., entered my CC security code (it was accurate) – “Can’t process your….”
Entered CC code – “The household limit has been reach…:
Re-entered CC code – “The household limit has been reach…:
12:02 or 12:03 – “Currently Unavailable”
Unbelievable!
Any one else have a mint website F’ed up experience ?
Mine wasn’t a good experience either. Booted from the the waiting room at 11:50 and ended up with a reminder button. I wasn’t all that crazy about it anyway so maybe for the best. And to think some people think Bitcoin will always run smoothly.
Reverand
the Last for me. I’ve been sitting,out since 2018. Done CC gold or bust
@ECG, I think for $3,640 I could pick up the 1935 Spanish Trail Half, An Athena owl tetradrachm and a 1929 Hawaii Territorial National Bank Note (all depending on grade. These are all my bucket list items. I guess it is time to move on.
I got a good price on a white PCGS MS66 Spanish Trail a few years back. It was on my list for years. I figure the $3,640 I saved by getting booted from the waiting room this morning will be applied to my next wish list, a 1928 Hawaiian….MS66. I’ll just need one more booting from the mint and I’m there!
There’s always the 2024 W proof Buffalo gold. It’s at the lowest mintage since it was first offered in 2006. Just a thought.
@Christo I think I would be satisfied with a MS64 Spanish Trail, although the MS66 would be nice. @Antonio doesn’t the 2024 W Gold Buffalo have a product limit of 16,000 and unlimited mintage (if they decide to bundle it in some other product). I thought it would only be low mintage if they decide to stop sales immediately at a little more than 8,000. Gold is too expensive for me. I was considering making an exception for the FHG.
So much for a high mintage. Sold out in less than five minutes, as I figured it would. Also a lower price than was figured would be offered, here, at $3,640. Only for people who have the moolah. I’m happy I settled for the silver medal. I believe it’ll also drive up the value of the FH silver medal. Time will tell, of course.
Well, I for one will never pay more than issue price for any meant product on the secondary market. Everyone needs to do the same thing. It’s the fools paining a crazy price that wind up fucking us all over.
please boycott is you can send MEZAK jars of French’s
Got lucky was able to purchase one.
You are one of the select few.
I had a flawless experience. I wasn’t rushing…a few seconds after 12pm I refreshed my computer, saw the ‘Add to Bag’ button and hit it. Went to check out, read the info, saw that they are charging more for shipping, but I got a 3$ discount, which was the only difference I noticed since my last purchase here. Provided all my cc info and purchased. Easy Peasy.
Sorry for the folks who had problems.
look carefully the shipping discount is $3.95/- not $3/-
Yes! You just made a “mint”! These will go for at least twice what you paid when you decide to sell it, eventually. High five for you! 😀
Antonio,
As we excitable soccer (fussball) aficionados are given to saying, “Score!”
Wow $3.95 off in a $4,000 item
Same I thought I saw $9.95 shipping even though I should be getting free budget shipping but honestly I was just happy to have it in my cart I entered my credit card information 30 minutes early selected the card entered CCV code checked the box and was done at 10am!! I got email at 10:01! Was worried when I got in at 9:57 because I knew I would have to refresh to get the button to show “add to bag”but I didn’t lose my place!
AdamL,
Now I get to be confused again because I had been given to believe that hitting “Refresh” would completely screw up the works but apparently that is not the case. So by the way, Antonio, forget what I said aka posted earlier. Sheesh.
It’s no problem. I wasn’t in the market for this one. I am wondering, if the Morgan and Peace dollars are sold as coins, why wasn’t the FH silver? What made it finally be issued as a medal rather than as a silver dollar? Curious.
Medals don’t have a denomination.
Hey Kaiser I was also under the same impression I got really nervous but I knew it would have to be done because I was already on the page with the remind me button and it doesn’t just go to add to bag automatically. I guess other option would have been to go back to product schedule and click the gold flowing hair again.
Congrats @AdamL. @Kaiser, I was on the product page waiting for the 12:00P EST. I was doing the same thing as @AdamL hitting refresh to get the “add to bag”. At this point I assumed I passed the waiting room already based from past experience. Instead it kicked to a 3 minute waiting room which increased to 5 minutes. I got on the site again on a different browser and had a 3 minute waiting room which might have ended early, but but the time i entered my CVC and agreed to terms, the FHG was CU. So in my… Read more »
Refresh at just past the 12:00 ET launch(not a second sooner), and even then it was less than a 50/50 chance of success due to the huge demand. Ask me how I know.
ಠ︵ಠ
Rick, I still want to hear Ventris’ song and dance about this FIASCO 3.o….and also how many were actually available for,us lemmings
I was able to get in easily about 2 min to kickoff, looked around, at top of hour went to page, bag, and check out with no problems I had in the past. Funny thing, I received confirmation email 26 min after kickoff, and the standard text alerting to availability at 31 min after kickoff. p.s. if the site owner like I can send a pic of confirmation. I don’t know why my posts are not being approved here. I used to frequent the old blog where some of your members here (inc J-Q) migrated. I suppose I can read… Read more »
smalltimecollector,
Looks like you’re in like Flint now. Congratulations and welcome to the site!
Thank you Kaiser! I don’t do a bunch of collecting and thus come here to read occasionally. I have posted here right after the blog went *poof* and occasionally thereafter.
Been visiting more recently with the more interesting LE offerings from the mint. I’m no stacker, wish I knew more about coins in general, yet do pick look and buy once in awhile.
Nice score. It’s like the lottery. I did hit a $1,0000 on a $5 ticket odds 13,000×1…. What was the FHG? Cag????
Congrats @smalltimecollector
Imagine they promote a coin for virtually a year. They taught it like it’s the second coming of Jesus. They promote it they want you to buy it. They want you to pay a lot of money for it. You wait you see the hype she’s a mentor actress. Oh, she’s out there really tap dancing a song baby, is she even qualified? Does she have a background for this? Where is all this shit going that selling out in a blink of an eye? Anyway so you finally go and decide to pull the trigger you’re at the website… Read more »
Already on eBay. Graded PF70. Highest being offered for $7,500. Two pages already available. Me 😀
Fool me no time. I knew this was going to happen. Silly wabbit. These items are for rich dealers and seasoned flippers. I’m just a humble collector making my way through the numismatic galaxy.
Antonio, it has happened before and will happen again. Funny 100s…1000s already on the Bay.
i no longer care about 99% of mint trinkets.
because, buying coins from US mean it’s like taking your car to a dealer for repairs. You’re gonna get raped.
Well…….my order was confirmed…..In the past all of the problems encountered by other commenters has caused me to miss releases. Not this time. I started using Paypal to avoid the cc code that snagged me at checkout for several releases in the past…..I have to think there was other ways for high volume retailers to purchase, given all for sale on ebay now….
Saw one on eBay asking $8,999. Prices are only sure to rise. Nice purchase. 😀
Harry B, Congratulations! I’m very, very Happy for You! 😉
Congrats @HarryB. Also good to hear from you.
I’ll just go away with a smile
I’m done. The collection stops here. One minute wait at 11:45 sign in. Then I’m in. At noon, I refresh to get “Add to Bag” which I’ve done on every other order. I’m back in the waiting room. 1 minute … 3 minutes … 4 minutes … 5 minutes … 7 minutes … 5 minutes … 4 minutes … 3 minutes … 2 minutes … 1 minute … I’m in and everything’s gone. Of course, Ebay is lit up with confirmed coins with 1k to 4k premiums. You’d think the thousands of dollars I send the Mint yearly would mean… Read more »
Reb the waiting room seemed to have odd movements of the wait time. The Mint could care little about one collector the new base, Mezakians and authorizeds o wise your OUT. YOU THINK THE YANKEES MADE BAD ERRORS, hey got Butkus o the Mint
I’ve canceled all of my subscriptions and unsubscribed from the Mint’s email. I’m out. If this “business” doesn’t want my money, I will be glad not to give it to them. It was a nice run (1960-2024) but I’m getting too old to deal with this shit. Today wasn’t the first time I’ve been screwed on their website but it will be the last. I’m kind of glad for it to be over. I wasn’t looking forward to the privy circus. I’m both happy to be out and sad to see the collection end.
64 years! That’s great! What a story your collection tells. We’re only custodians for now. The time will come when either we part from them or we part with them for someone else to have. I certainly wasn’t around when my first/oldest coin, an 1836 large cent, was minted. The time will come when someone else will be its custodian and it continues its journey through time.
REB, I feel your pain. I was just a spectator in the cheap seats for this one, but I also unsubscribed to all of my silver and clad Mint subscriptions. I thought about possibly trying for a FHG, but since it would just be to flip my better senses got a hold of me. I would be petrified trying to sell one on eBay for fear of getting stiffed- either by a shady buyer or the USPS. And selling to a dealer would be a lose proposition being 1K over spot. You’ve got to really be a gung-ho gold coin… Read more »
Yes.., liquidated a some high dollar gold, Pd AGE, and a Peace with signed COA for $3,400… After 5 eBay sales.., I stopped; Made me nervous, borderline petrified, Selling high dollar PMs on the Bay is not the same as selling a $100 coin, anyone that says differently is full of $h!+, or a clue bag.., the risk goes up exponentially, High dollar coins do not bring out the best people, or sometimes the best in people, as professional and risk mitigated as I could possibly make it, I still had a couple of issues, and had one returned to… Read more »
I’ve sold items under $1k on eBay. Not many isssues, a SF anniversary Proof set “disappeared “ in UsPS custody.
eBay sucks a lot of %, and then you get a 1099, the. The IRS argues hobby and capital gains v. Sch C, local tax…..state tax. Kinda true. I’ve had real issues with sellers canceling a deal whe I got a “deal” no ramifications
My Mint buy period 1968-2018, 2024RIP
started with a Coin World from neighbors trash read of S proof sets started w $5 1968s. Years later, after always luvin and promoting mint and items quit after ERASE debacle now superseded by 2024 FHG collector schtupp
REB,
I wish I could have warned you about that in time. Apparently once you’re in the Waiting Room hitting “Refresh” puts you back at the end of the line. Everything keeps changing at the Mint so it’s more luck than strategy that gets you through now.
I was out of the waiting room. I was on the site. To get rid of the “Remind Me” and get the “Add to Bag” button, I’ve always had to refresh. I did at noon and this time got sent to the waiting room.
Kaiser I was good 8:58 4m…. 9:00 5m. 9:01 IN 9:02 clocked to buy SO. How is this even happening of right..
$63,000,000 in 2m. If so the mint left a lot of $ for the scum
Damn REB, I was hoping you at least had success getting this coin. I wonder what % of buyers are just flippers. If you look at eBay, I’d say it is a large %. Sorry for your experience with the mint!
Thanks. The Mint has made this hobby a chore. I’ve always said they should mint to demand. I thought the L&B was a move in the right direction. But, they’ve moved back to their old annoying habits … this time on steroids.
Yeah.., USM should have had an ordering window like on L&B for this release, I personally think it helps keep the flippers out,
Make no mistake about it.., collectors were railroaded by the flippers today…. Amazing amount of OPG on eBay now,
After I was told twice that I exceed the HHL, without an order confirmation, I was sent back the waiting room, and had the same experience of the timing on a roller coast….
Even better, on the website, it tells me the item is CU and remove from my bag, and I exceeded the HHL…. What a circus.
At least for now, so much for gold surpassing the $3000 level. Ce’st la vie.
Well Shit! I didn’t get one! I’m pretty miffed. I added it to the Bag, went to pay, entered my CVC, Purchased it and Nothing! I couldn’t tell if I got it or not. Looks like NOT as no Confirmation from the Mint. So happy I already purchased 3 others on Pre Sales from EBay. One in OGP, which that Seller got it ordered with Mint Confirmation, plus I got 2 in PR70, one First Strike and one First Day of Issue, both Flag Labels. I’m happy in one way but very pissed in another way! Yes, Ebay is loaded… Read more »
Does anybody know how many coins were available for regular customers to buy? In other words how many were already earmarked for the big dealers?
ECG, Good dang question that I’d be very, very interested in too! Sorry you couldn’t get one either! Very sad State of Affairs in regards to the US Mint! I hate to say it but I’ve been promoting, pumping up this coin, saying this “could” sell out first day but most didn’t think so with 17,500 mintage. I’m surprised but I’m NOT, if that makes cents! If you really want one, I’d buy one now off eBay NOW as the prices are going to go up, up and away, I’m thinking. We’ll see but I can’t imagine this coin NOT… Read more »
ECG – of the FHS, 17.9%, or 8,926 of the 49,966 sold, were sold to the Bulk Dealers…. So if 18% of 17,250 were sold to the dealers, say 3,105 – though doesn’t that seem low to you? Seems low to me…. USM had them at Baltimore today, so say they took a 1,000 to sell, and then what, 500 each at the 3 stores, total guesstimate on my part, 17,250 – 3,105 – 2,500 = 11,645 So perhaps they had 11,645 available for the website.., that went in under 4 minutes, with half of the lot going to a… Read more »
Good research and information. Thanks!
I thought the bulk purchasers were limited to 10% of the mintage. So that would be 750 right? Also does anyone know if the 230 with the privy Mark are included in the 17,500 mintage or will those be counted separately? I managed to get one in less than 1 min and confirmation email 1 min later. I don’t flip or sell anything since I started collecting in 2009. I will probably get it graded by PCGS at the las Vegas member only show in December. I was definitely surprised it sold so fast. I was thinking maybe 12-36 hours.
Curious how people’s luck was at the Mint stores across the country? I waited in line at the DC location back for the 50th Anniversary Kennedy Gold Coin, that line was bananas. Had professional line holders in it.
Nope, there’s two programs Bro.., they pay a premium on the numismatics, and got 18% of the FHS,
We covered in more detail in a related thread 1 or 2 back,
Also addressed in the PR, 07 Nov..
Get used to it…. The USM found it liquidator, sell in advance to dealers, and move inventory, damned the fall out,
Ryder’s Legacy, a collectors temple of DOOM
KC&SO & ECG, probably only roughly half of the FHG coin mintage was available for today’s Mint website ordering. Out of the fully achieved mintage of 17,500 FHG coins, my guesstimates are for the initial available count of approximately 9,000 via regular online mint ordering and about 8,500 withheld and distributed through other channels (e.g. ABPP and dealer numismatic program, the 3 US Mint stores, the Whitman Baltimore Winter Expo US Mint booth, and unspecified Mint gifting/etcetera). As ECG noted, the same thing happened with the 1/10oz gold coins of type 1 and type 2 back in 2021; Sold out… Read more »
102 for collectors 16,898 for MEZAK et al.
I predicted this as soon as the “new” website appeared….. easily foreseeable.
the more things change the more they stay the same
The bright side is you will have three. At a premium but some nonetheless. Most others won’t have even one and don’t have the money to buy the ones offered on eBay or elsewhere. Has anyone considered the proof W Buffalo gold? It’s at its lowest mintage since it’s been issued. Also, much fewer than the Flowing Hair Gold Dollar.
The reason I wasn’t interested in the Au FH wasn’t due to the design but because of the high premium they demanded. I don’t buy coins to immediately sell them on eBay for a profit. As for eBay, I’ll let those that absolutely need one at any price have all they want. Buying right after a release is a game for the foolish, in my opinion.
As I thought about almost a 50% premium
I was expecting heavy traffic and did not get myself too excited to get my hands on one of these coins. I was logged into the website and at noon immediately got to the purchase page. The check out was without problem and I used my PayPal option. Confirmation that the order is in process. I have experienced the really bad times when the website was essentially offline when the traffic was so heavy. So I do give them credit for improving the process for high demand products. This is the first of the year with such high demand, the… Read more »
What do you know? Look at those prices for the FH silver medal. Jumped $100 to $200 dollars! Is it a gimmick or market forces?
Yawn
John,
Why do folks always gauge their net worth by what someone on feeBay ‘is asking’ for an item. I’m wondering if Fed Powell looks at the action there in determining the state of the U.S. economy? Lol
It’s part of what’s called the marketplace, which is what determines all appraisals. But I agree it’s the sale price that counts, not the ask price. Whether real estate or coins. Which, by the way, the Gov does look at in setting assessments — local Gov for real estate property tax.
Went to log in this morning about 20 minutes before, website told my my password was wrong, tried changing it about five times and each time got the same error with the new passwords. Thanks a lot, US Mint.
Doh! And gone… I’m sure most are a bit surprised about how quick these coins sold out? I know I am. Now, time for some “Fun With Numbers”! I’m speculating that the US Mint sold somewhere between roughly 1,600-3,100 coins to the ABPP homies. This is 15%-18% versus the 10% the Mint stipulates that they selll to the ABPP homies. Additionally, although the US Mint also stipulates that when they provide for a program that’s involved with the ABPP to be governed by those same ABPP rules, to not use any other means to procure additional inventory or suffer loss… Read more »
Cali, There are times when I really want to be wrong, but reality (and greed) shove the camel’s nose under the tent of my existence. I expected exactly what happened with today’s release. This bolsters my expectation for the 12/12/24 auction. You may be right – I may be behind the pricing curve. I’ve lived long enough to see what people do at auctions. I’d already left the USM in ’21, after the Morgan/Peace debacle. And that was with a website that actually worked! As I’d said earlier, I just sat on the sidelines and watched. My sincere condolences to… Read more »
In addition to the huge flipper mark up, if you live in a state like New Jersey, you will pay another $350 on top of the flipper mark up. No sales tax on direct mint purchase.
Years ago the US Mint would send your items through UPS and you would have to sign for them .Now they send it through USPS and the mail carrier puts in your mail box and says it has been delivered. These days people steal packages off your porch so better watch out if it gets stolen the USPS will say sorry about your bad luck.
In hand pics on the bay…
Is Amazon delivering these with the 1 hour service?
#1 obv
Thanks fellow Virginian.., guess we should have went to Baltimore or DC this a.m., on the PCGS blog, there’s a photo or two of the line of buyers at Baltimore.., some of those crackers in line appeared not be buying for their own diverse portfolio of collector coins… Rosemont Kennedy all over,
Yeah, a trip up to bmore might have been the best option. Not sure if there was a line at the DC store…
Halo effect…..so,how looks crowded in person….oh well
#2 Rev
Packaging
Clamshell view
Sharks2th,
Thanks for the photos! Wow, folks already have them in hand! WTF!! We can’t even order one! Geez Louise! Dam It Janet! I apologize if there are any Janet’s or Louise’s on here, lol! 😉
I hand, unless bought at a mint store HOW?
The Coin show… Whitman Baltimore Winter Expo today…
Ok. Seems like another scam sale governor….AP$, Mezakians, 230 privy, 10% for someone else, maybe 9k were actually available
The lowest number I saw on the confirmations was 25545 and the highest was 28400. That’s only about 3k difference. A few of the numbers were covered up on those selling on the bay. If you post a confirmation # here be sure to use xx for the last 2 so you don’t give it your info.
Some of the lower priced bay sellers also do not have many reviews so watch out for scams if you’re looking at buying there.
Thank @sharks2th. It these numbers hold up it would be a big difference from the 10-12k that @KCSO calculated.
P.S. I finally get you handle 2th = tooth. I am a bit slow.
I went back to Collectors Universe and saw posted order numbers from 149219XX to 14929xxx.
So that works out to about 6300 orders.
Yeah the 2th=tooth is a funny/humorous/shorter way to do the name. I enjoy fossil hunting and sharks teeth are one of the fossils you find along the Chesapeake and east coast.
I misread your 2nd number Vinnie. 9xxx minus 19xx gives you 7100+ sales based on the order numbers seen.
@sharks2th The one report truncated to thousand and the other to the hundreds sort of threw me off too. Nokomis Beach, FL is also known sharks teeth. I never found any, but my coworker did, Now I live in UT and we have different fossils,
Lower quality pics #1
Lower quality pics #2
Lower quality pics #3
Gentlemen: It’s been my honor and a great privilege to get so much information here from all of you about the hobby I used to enjoy. I thank you for that. This latest offense by the Mint with the Flowing Hair Gold coin has left me angry, resentful, and depressed. It’s not the first time I’ve been shafted by the Mint but it brought my central problem with the agency into sharp focus – why would I want to continue giving tens of thousands to a vendor who doesn’t seem to care about my purchases? I have canceled all of… Read more »
Does anyone know when the mint will begin shipping confirmed orders on these coins?
Mine shows as “Shipped” this morning
Great! Thank you.
KAISER ALUMINUM,
This is great. Didn’t know I had a cousin in the base metal business!
Thanks for clearing that up, Kaiser. I thought you became a commodity broker.
Sorry for the confusion. Wilhelm will always be the “Kaiser”.
Cheers Mate! Since you posted earlier about ‘buying from the mint as a chore’ – that really resonated with me, I thought about that and how it relates to the past 10-12 years of my own experience, and it’s getting worse…. Along with these ridiculous games and shut outs.., exclusive boutique offerings for the elite, I share your sentiment, though while not depressed, just fatigued, and over it.., Planning a fly fishing trip instead, super excited for that. Someone renown on MNB used say a lot that the mint was killing off its Golden Goose (us collectors) with higher prices,… Read more »
Oh, and here’s something to top it off.., you just can’t make this stuff up..
So my credit card DID get dinged for the $3,660 (I selected Overnight delivery).., and yet no order confirmation, nor order history.
So I called customer service, they were pleasant and looked into it, and basically said – Nope, no soup for you.., don’t worry about that pending charge, it’ll go away in 3-5 business days…. Seriously! WTF.., where else does this happen in retail? Any where? Just can’t make this up..,
Sounds like a consumer protection lawsuit needs to be filed against the mint. They could negatively affect your credit rating with a bogus charge. I usually try to clear my credit card outstanding balance a few days before trying to get these high dollar items.
KC&SO, I’d keep an eye on the pending charge, but it should drop away. Back when gas was close to $5/gal gas stations were notorious for placing $99 pending charges every time I filled my car no matter how much gas I bought. I guess because it cost that much to fill a tank, they wanted to make sure your card had available funds. Problem is that your available funds do get impacted until the pending charges drop away.
KC&SO, in the end it all about collectors, isn’t it? I mean, the dealers and flippers are selling to them. If you’re turned away at the Mint because you couldn’t buy one, then exactly how inclined are you to pay even more to acquire one secondhand? And yet, that resale market thrives. Go figure. It’s not enough for collectors to simply boycott the Mint- they need to boycott the resellers, too.
Sorry you are out. I got burned on the first palladium coin that the mint sold only thru secondary. I still have the unpicked cherry, dings and all…. will never go through a retailer again. There was another mint offering that I tried to purchase and had all sorts of issues staying logged in and was unable to complete order. I swore off the mint and really did not buy via their web site for a coupe years. I can’t imagine all the problems some here incurred. I feel for you. Believe it that this was the easiest mint purchase… Read more »
For the enhanced reverse ASE I had many on notice and try. I got nada. Everyone get nothing aExcept. My buddy on Maui scored one! Sold on eBay for $1,390…lost by USPS for 5 months and suddenly returned to him, how did a guy inHana win a ASE and everyone else squat… access for internet? Luck….memehummies
This is interesting! After my experience dealing with the fiasco of the 2019 e-rev-pr ase and no score, I went I a two year p.o. hiatus of us mint purchases.
I broke the hiatus with the 21RCN. Now only look when there is something very interesting.
REB, The demand for this coin was underestimated, unexpected, and unprecedented. The high premium gave many, including myself the false sense of security for a successful purchase today. I’m guessing you may have thought the same way, even when the Mint/premium detractors here spoke up… Many collectors that just wanted their one coin either scored, or failed. Now one must pay an even higher premium to get their coin from a non-collector(flipper or dealer) unfortunately. This is the most troubling thing going on with these hot releases imo. Perhaps some sort of a bulk buyer reform could be implemented(no bulk… Read more »
If REB has decided to stop collecting Au proofs, that’s his decision to make and I respect him for that. If he absolutely has to have all pressed Au Proofs in his collection, or else, then this is indeed a good place to stop. Not because of the insane premium on PM’s the mint demands of its plebes (premium detractor here), but because I think you’re going to need to pony up perhaps six figures minimum for any of the 230 privy marked proofs. Unfortunately, holes in your collection are inevitable (mine looks like someone mowed it down with a… Read more »
Seems like a collection needed to be kept in safety deposit box, or Brinks truck
REB must surely have a fantastic collect of valuable coins and I’d be surprised if he didn’t have them in a secured large safe or two. I have mine in a 1000 lb. safe and no one has been able to open it or carry it away.
Craig,
With the upcoming advent of the Mint’s Superhero series you must be glad you don’t live next door to the Incredible Hulk!
Rick very true but In reality I do t “need” the FHau and have never, and will never, pay more than issue price for USM stuff. I’ve spent a lot of $ I was at focus groups, I have pounded the table for FH, Stella, Classic restrikes, Gobrecht, etc. why it’s seems fixed, no IT IS FIXED. Somehow, the mint has changed from an agency to assist COLLECTORS to an Agency dedicated to quick sellouts, APs, and bulk sales. Fine I retreat to the classics. Myself. Can’t wait for the next survey request…
I guess the USM is now addicted to the gravy train of the AP’s and Bulkamania lol.. The APS and Bulks were intended to aid in the distribution of a lot of these products like ASE proofs, Porgans, etc..
Oh yes you do pay more than USM issue price!.. The coin below used to only cost five bucks bro! Now you pay a lot more for that same coin MADE AT THE MINT Lol….
Nice Rick the CC Au has popped but not quite the % Au rose ratio wise. I got a 90cc $20 au55 for $4,600, 1 k over FHG….. I got rolls of ‘64 JFKs as w the $5 worth a lot more…does PCGS slab full rolls, I think so, Orig Clev Fed wrappers. Oh well the FHG would only b hidden away, can’t leave it on display….
Sounds like me! Congratulations and Mahalo
Mint Dead to Me since 2018….
REB,
You’re not alone; many of us have been frustrated and left screaming at our computers by the USM. Please reconsider your decision to leave the hobby, as I’ve always enjoyed reading what you have to say. You can quit the Mint and keep on with coins (and all of us here). My deepest sympathy, as it can indeed feel like part of you has died. Please don’t let this one bad apple spoil your whole barrel.
Sam-I-am,
Terrific, very timely advice for those who might just be in the process of losing their hope, interest and/or motivation regarding coin collecting.
REB,
Isn’t there a way for you to still collect and stay on here without involving the Mint?
Funny that the Mint is supposed to serve collectors, not authorized sellers, reseller and flipbots
John Q. Coinage,
Even if that were the case, numismatic coinage would still come third at the Mint after circulating and bullion coinage.
Funny thing the AWQs and halves don’t circulate
John Q. Coinage,
It seems that some of what the Mint sells to the Federal Reserve just disappears.
Kaiser, as the repository of coins I wonder if the Fed is sitting on stashes speculating to see if they gain any value over face in order to auction later.
JCQ, I regularly get AWQ in change. Halves are another story– stores don’t like them bc there are no slots in their cash registers for them. Wishful thinking I know, but if the 1c went away that would open up a slot for them.
Major I should have said getting any rolls. I do get them but always last years. I have not received a 24 AWQ yet…..nor5c or 50c, like 2 dimes
I’ve stepped way back from direct Mint purchases. For me coin collecting is about the joy in discovering a new interesting coin or finding a rarity- and the added value proposition. This is not a knock on anyone who collects or stacks PM coins/medals/bullion but the Mint’s offerings to me are more akin to trophies. And ones that need extra protection and security and insurance at that. Frankly, I sleep better at night knowing I don’t have to worry about any of that. Plus, I’m too old to bust out (and replace) the concrete in my floor like John Wick… Read more »
‘gold is best kept in an IRS’…not for me! I like and enjoy holding the weight of Au in my hands. I’ve stored my PM’s in my safe for decades and they are still there in pristine condition.
funny. “IRS” in place of “IRA”. In the movies using gold transactionally works great for John Wick at the Continental Hotel. In real life, for any sales you’ll have to deal with IRS reporting.
American Eagles no 1099s <$10k
Damn IRS, they’ve invaded my brain again! Lol. Those greedy bastards always want their cut in anything you sell, unless you sell to a friend or someone ‘under the table’. no?
Craig,
They’re not greedy, they’re just following the precepts of the Bible by taking for Caesar (read Federal government) that which is due to him. 😉
Different strokes for different folks is what we were taught. There is no singular way, and there are many paths to seeking/finding contentment.
There is that diversification of assets thing as well.
As we put a little here and there and time wears on, we need to somehow keep track and make sense of it all.
i.e. has anyone tried to buy a piece of Grueby pottery or perhaps a mid-century lamp as a gift or decorator piece lately….?
Antique Dutch Delve pottery….
Here is my brief story. For years I have consistently been shut out by the Mint on more sales of popular coins then I care to remember. Missed opportunities, crashed web site, too much traffic, timed out, sold out, shut out, wait listed, and of course currently not available. My frustrations with the Mint and history of losses to the big vendors is legendary. Despite this I persist with this seemingly loosing chess match and try when prices aren’t crazy to get what i like on the secondary market. This time I logged in around 11:40 spent a few minutes… Read more »
Congratulations!
Save your money for the 12th – haha.
Starting bid on number 1 is $55,000
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/auctions/3-1EVV9W/december-2024-historic-privy-mark-230th-anniversary-flowing-hair-high-relief-gold-coins-on-behalf-of-the-united-states-mint-lots-11001-11230
They are all PCGS graded.
Obv
Rev
Sharkie,
You got game braah. Thanks for those great photos.
Later
I received the coin this morning next day air. I find the coin underwhelming as it is the size of a half dollar. The silver medal looks more substantial.
Interesting…..if priced like the Ag the Au would be $7,800
perhaps some Irrational Exuberance going on with the Au?
Here is a comparison of the two.
I was in at 11:56, put in my bag right at noon. Claimed I entered my CVV wrong (it wasn’t wrong), fixed it, and it said that I’d reached my household limit. Claimed that putting my CVV in wrong counted as an order. Called the bf to get his mom’s credit card and address, but by the time I changed to that, it was sold out. Mixed feelings. (1) I wanted it. (2) I’m trying to buy a house now and $3700 is not trivial. (3) I could’ve bought this and sold at a hefty profit to put into the… Read more »
Thanks Stuart for sharing what you did above, it actually HELPS A LOT, I had the EXACT same experience using the same hardware and process I have for years.., and it was eating me up, as to what I did wrong.., as I KNOW I entered my CC security code accurately, and then this is how the USM website responded – 1) Order could not be processed, 2) Two further attempts, – HHL had been reached, 3) Remove item from bag 4) Kicked back to waiting room Hell 5) Did the the waiting room time our roller coaster.. down, up,… Read more »
I was on Apple desktop, Firefox, 11:58 waiting room 4m, then. 5m, in at 9:01 available, entered all info….accepted terms, Click, Ventris SAYS: 9:02 UNAVAILABLE WTF…..
THIS WAS NO SURPRISE AS IN AN EARLIER POST I DESCRIBED THE “new” Imrpvoed WEBSITE WAS SLOW, BAD, AI DIRECTING YIU TO OPEN AN ACCOUNT…..Easy Peary to see that it would not be a duck shoot, more like a customer shoot
Mint Sales show only
7625 of the gold flowing hair proof sold
As was mentioned FHS , Has a mintage of 75,000 .Mint has only sold close to 50,000, Perhaps they are producing a set of the gold and silver together …
Let’s just say around 10,000 sets
What is your opinion on this. JM Bullion has these coins for sale if you pay by credit card the price is $4832 if you pay by check the price is $4687 and if you want to sell one to them they only offer you $3866 for the coin. They buy low and sell high.